Budget Advisory Group Meeting - March 19, 2026

opted it more than a year ago now and are implementing it and really trying to focus on improving the school district and meeting student needs.

And our budget reflects um those objectives that are in the strategic plan.

Okay.

Oh, I guess I have to Okay, I'm advancing it a different way.

So, um, a look at our enrollment.

Average class size K to5 is 22. Um, up over the last, if you look at the last five years, that's up. um you know a couple of students maybe up to three students on average um through cuts that we've made through the years uh but is stable from uh from fiscal year 26 currently K to8 average class size 21 same story there um up a little on average from five years ago but uh but

but stable at this point uh high schools a little it depends on the offering. So um you know advanced placement courses have lower class size, general cent courses have higher class size. Um it's acceptable class size at the moment. We have 12.2 students to one teacher. We have 3251 kids currently. Uh and we're projecting that to be pretty stable for the following year.

We've shared this information before um but we've updated it for the latest data from this year. Uh so you know our our high needs population is now remaining fairly stable at about 43%.

We're glad it's not going up but it was 29% um just 11 years ago. So, uh, so it's a significant increase to the needs of our students in the Dartmouth public schools. And you'll see that lowincome population has gone up about 10%, a little more than 10% over that time period, but does seem to be leveling off uh at about 28 29%. We're hoping that that goes down, of course. And then uh

students with disabilities has a steady climb uh from from 13% up to 22% over that time frame. So those that really is the story of the um how our costs are driven is meeting the needs of of students with increasingly high needs.

per pupil spending where uh total per pupil spending of $19,335.

Uh the state average is 23,000.

We're $3,800 below state average or 263rd of uh of 319 districts in in spending. And you can see the various um the various other um areas being teachers, insurance and benefits, administration, operations and maintenance and pupil services all below state average. Some very significantly below such as insurance and benefits and administration and operations and maintenance. All of which are you know

more than 30% below state average in terms of our expenditures.

staffing. Similarly, we're we're below state average in terms of this is uh staff per 100 students. It's a metric that the department of ed puts out.

We're below average in each of uh in each of those categories. Um slightly below in teachers, significantly below in paraprofessionals, we call them educational support professionals here in Dartmouth.

below in leadership, student support, clerical and technology.

So I know we wanted to talk about fixed costs and and um you know I I think that this slide while some of these costs are not necessarily entirely fixed are the key factors in the creation of the FY27 budget. So contractual salary increases for our um our teachers unit and our nurses unit 3 and 12% increase in fiscal year 27 planned uh plus folks moving up on steps. We have 11 steps in the salary

schedule. So that has an impact. Um and then our education support professionals who are significantly underpaid um receive 5% increase in in fiscal year 27.

So when you look at the 80% of our budget that is staffing, we um are looking at about a about a 5% increase in on the salary side. So that's going to be the key factor that you're going to see in in a minute when we look at the next the next slide. But um special education contracted services 171,000 uh a number of these so this line and a number of other lines are really focused

on meeting key student needs um and are impacted by the increased needs of students and the increased number of students with increased needs.

So, um, these reflect reality of what we need. Uh, they're not things that we want to do necessarily, like we don't want to spend more money on maintenance and utilities, but the reality is if if we're doing things correctly, we should be. Um, and yes, Jim, I have one question. these sped services um contracted services would this be OTP behavior because then later on we have tuition so is outside placement part of

tuitions outside placement is part of tuitions yes yes so what does that mean um so so if there's a student that we can't serve in the district for instance if um if a student had a a significant special need um like they were blind.

It may that their best um course of of education may not be something that we can provide in house. So they go to a special school, the town is responsible for, you know, paying for that. So that those are the types of situations, but it's a there's a variety of programming depending on the the high needs of the student and there are a lot of specialty programs throughout the state to meet

those needs where we may not be able to build those specialty programs because we might not have the pool of students to um you know to support those programs and and all the staffing that's required. So yeah, thank you. So, so, so special ed contracted services is services for students that are outside of what we can provide with our own staff and um they're increasing. So, there are therapies and treatments that

we need specialists um in the district to help provide substitutes. Um this is a reality like we we just our our attendance since CO is um throughout the state. The the state just published a a document on it. Um they did a study and uh attendance of staff is is worse since CO um that's probably not a surprise.

It's not a surprise to me in that during CO we told people to stay home when they were sick. Before CO we never said that to anyone.

Drag yourself in.

So it you know and and is it better that they stay home when they're sick? Well, probably because then they're, you know, not getting the 25 other people in that classroom sick. So at any rate, we we need to increase that budget to to address that. um instructional supplies and uh nursing supplies are on the list.

They they haven't been increased since 2019 at all. Not a penny. And we know what we're all dealing with in real life at home uh in terms of inflationary cost pressures. Um I've just not increased them and tried to get by. But uh the reality is that that we need to we need to step up and and come to grips with uh you know the the new pricing structure of the world. So,

um, some other areas, key areas, transportation, special education, and regular education, also a problem that's not a Dartmouth specific problem, um, but significant increase $762,000 increase 16.7%.

and we um are doing our best to mitigate that but um have have limited control.

Uh the special education portion of that is a lot and um and really it just involves transporting students to the type of placements that we just talked about in terms of tuitions, athletics and music area. um really athletics, music, and maintenance and utilities. The next three lines really just trying to do what is right for the the students in the district and the buildings in the district. Um so we hope

to be able to fund those lines appropriately, maintain the buildings, fund the activities that our students participate in.

uh tuitions we we talked about.

Unfortunately, they are always going up at a rate higher than our budget in terms of what the the state sets the rate of in of uh inflation for for um out of district placement tuition. So, they set that annually and um it is always higher than than what we are um than what we're looking at. and we have an increase in students. And then the last thing is the staff moved

from school choice. So you know last year we we I we have another slide on it but you know we came up with the idea that we were going to gradually wean off uh school choice. Um so by $245,000 a year for 5 years and then get to the point where we were spending about $700,000 which is about where we've got coming in from school choice.

So before I move on, do we have thoughts questions?

My my thought was just to let you let you go through the whole thing. Okay.

We'll come back.

Yeah, we can come back to it. So we do have recommendations built into our budget. Um education support professionals. Those are those are folks who assist with um assist staff and students in the classrooms. you saw that we're significantly understaffed and it shows especially as we've seen increases in class size over the last five years.

Um we you know we really need additional support in the classrooms and um so we've we've made that recommendation.

RBTs. I probably shouldn't use acronyms all over the place and I apologize, but registered behavior technicians. Um, so registered behavior technician is an education support professional who implements behavior plans. So they have a specialized training to implement behavior plans with individual students or groups of students that those behavior plans are created by someone else called a board certified behavior

um analyst and we have two of those in the district and these folks would help implement those plans. So you higher needs of students.

They're each paid 117 or no that's the total by two that divided by three.

Oh three. Yeah. Yep. Yep. They're their ESPs. Our ESPs are not, as you can see, $30,000 for that.

Yeah. Yeah. Um adjustment counselor at the middle school. We have one for 850 students and and um really just that's not the right staffing um ratio to be able to accomplish what we need to with with our kids in grades six through eight. Um job coach at Atlas. So, Atlas, the Atlas program is the 18 to 22 program at Dartmouth High School. It serves um students who are unable to meet the graduation requirements in 12th

grade and we are responsible for their education through the age of 22. Um students with special needs. So, that program we we created two years ago and it's been very successful.

We have 10 students in the program right now. If th if we were sending those students out, those 10 students would cost in tuition more than $600,000 a year. Um and we would be providing transportation.

We do it inhouse with a small number of staff. Um but next year we will have 14 students in that in that class. The um goal of the of the Atlas program is to get students ready for the next stage of life. When they turn um you know when they turn 23 they're out of the program.

So um they need to be they need to learn life skills and get out in the community, do grocery shopping, volunteer activities, jobs, and a variety of you know variety of other experiences. So that's what the program does and we need more hands to do it.

Um, obviously it's $39,000 cost for a, you know, for for that for those four additional students would be probably more than $300,000 worth of costs. So, we a specialed team facilitator. So, the the team facilitator position assists um assists students and staff in in terms of special needs in terms of the special needs program of the school. We have one right now split between the high school

and middle school and we really need to we need we need a higher ratio on on that. Um maintenance staff, we would like to hire an additional maintenance staff member. We have five. Um it's not enough for our buildings and we would like to continue to maintain these aging buildings as best we can. Um, I think we do a good job, but I do think that we can't do enough with what we currently have.

Human resources, we had lots of discussion about this over the last couple years. Um, so we it is, you know, we're we're a big big department. um you know 600 staff and uh basically the superintendent and I um and the superintendent's assistant are managing human resources and none of us are trained human resources folks. We do our best and I think we do pretty well but it's um it's an area of of

need. technology staff.

We're just underst staffed in this area and we've have a request for a technician to assist our group. Athletic coordination, we hold the biggest events in town. Um, and we would like to organize coordination. That would be a stipened position spread out over the activities and athletics throughout the year. Uh and that would pro most likely be a a um staff member, existing staff member,

probably a teacher who would be per performing those job that you know that job after hours.

Elementary instrumental music, we cut that um program a few years ago and uh we would like to bring back uh instrumental music lessons in grade five.

Yeah. Yeah. Help desk for the you know everything. Help desk for everything basically. Yeah.

Uh, so some of the things that we didn't build in, behavioral specialist, that typically is a board-certified behavior analyst, um, which I talked about a little in relation to the RBTs. We have two in the district. We weren't able to fit that into the proposal. Special education teacher at the elementary level and a reading specialist at the middle school were all things that have a lot of value to kids, but we we

weren't we didn't build them into the budget. um school choice spending plan.

I won't spend a lot of time on this other than to say where this is a continuation of the plan from last year that we agreed upon to spend to gradually decrease $245,000 a year to get to the point where you see in fiscal year 31 uh 32 and 33 where we're expending about $700,000 and bringing in close to that. Um so the hope is that we get to we get to that point and then

obviously the reserves will be gone at that point.

Jim, what is um strategic plan implementation?

Mostly mostly highquality curriculum materials and professional development related to high quality curriculum materials. So what is revenue?

Revenue is the money we get from um from students attending Dartmouth.

School choice. So, you know, with school choice hasn't changed since the '9s. The the rate we get $5,000 a student. Um I had written to um to Representative Marky about it and hoped that there would be some some movement because it doesn't cost the state anything. It cost the community that is sending students.

Um so I thought maybe it would be logical to adjust that rate from $5,000, but uh it it hasn't been. Um, we do if the student has any special needs, there's an adjustment for that in terms of, you know, if they require.

Yeah. Depending on what they And does preschool tuition go in there, too?

No. Preschool is is a separate Yeah.

separate program. Yep.

So, what does all that mean in fiscal year 26? Um, we we have a budget of 55,431,558.

The key budget factors. So that that list on the other page that we saw is 2.7 million for 5%. Um then the 245,000 for school choice and then the budget recommendations 768,000 for a total of 59,226 287 or 6.85%.

And this is what it looks like from year to year and broken down by category. Um you'll see about a 5% increase in instruction, 11% in administration, that's the HR director. Um maintenance and utilities 10% other services 12% that's mostly transportation. Tuition's 9%. Uh Medicaid I I didn't talk about but it's it is important because it generates revenue for the town. Um we we do Medicaid billing where um certain

some students are um Medicaid eligible and uh we bring in about $300,000 a year in terms of revenue. Um but there is cost to generating that revenue and and we need a bit of an increase there.

It's very time consuming as well.

It's not a fun job.

It's not a fun job. I I had put this stuff on here and um I didn't update it so I apologize but obviously we've already had a couple of these at the top but this is uh today our March TBD uh 19th budget advisory group. We have Monday night a public hearing on the budget and um the the select board have agreed to join us um which we're excited about. Um and then um we have another

school committee meeting on April 13th, town meeting. I'd imagine some other things in between here, but that's sort of where we are. So I'd be happy to Great.

talk specifics.

Thank you, Jim. Um I think obviously the goal of this particular committee and the reason that it was set up uh was to educate um inform citizens about um you know the budgets of different uh the different towns. Um but even more about the money um some of the reasoning behind uh capital allocation um and uh outside pressures that you may not see in a number um but you will uh notice that the departments bring them

up um and that I think goes across all the different departments. I as Jim was talking I was trying to get the uh the list together of questions that have come in to me as as chair of this particular committee um and some of the questions that I had also um I I guess I could start unless uh somebody wants to has any specific questions right now um but I I thought you know an overall

review of exactly what Jim's presentation would look like and then some questions um about this and then other departments things more for Gary and and and Cody I think I have uh at the end. First thing uh for me is um the school choice. School choice Jim and I have spoken about this. We met last year about it. Um I think you know the limit of $5,000 per is um has been low. How

many years has that been since the implementation?

Since the implementation it's the Yeah, the original program was $5,000. It talked about um it talked about it as it relates to per pupil spending but then they didn't build in any mechanism to inflate the cost over time.

That's been since 1991.

Yeah. In the 90s. Yeah.

Yeah. So, so say 199192 that limit hasn't changed. When when Jim brings that up to um to the state level, um the answer has been, and you can correct me, but when I asked the question at the state level, the answer to me was uh your tax rates too low. Uh you're not taxing your citizens enough uh to cover uh the these budget items.

Uh and we're not, you know, we wouldn't consider that, you know, specifically for the town, but statewide because uh we see that we see that a lot. So, okay, that that's the answer I get back.

No town is charging enough taxes, so they can't raise that school choice.

They they will not look at increasing the school choice. Um, and Dartmouth in and Jim alluded to it is in a particular situation where we're receiving we're not we're not spending. So, the the issue politically is is obvious. You know, you have cities uh like New Bedford that spend a lot more money on school choice than they receive. I I'm assuming. Yes.

Um you know, Worcester and throughout throughout the state. So, you know, the lobbying dollars and um and the calls made by the larger uh communities and municipalities um I think outweigh any change to that limit. So, I have stopped chasing that dog around the yard.

Could Could I Right.

Yeah. Could I chime in for a second please? So I I think um that the answer that we do get when we talk about overall funding. So not just school choice but overall funding from the state and when we talk to our legislators is so in terms of chapter 70 funding and I would imagine on the town side the general government funding is that our tax rate is low and that is our

problem and we ask about other things but the legislators really won't entertain those because um because of our our tax rate.

Mhm. And and you know, just a reminder to those that are watching that that this the establishment of this committee is not a get the schools committee. You know, we're we're not we're not looking to uh penalize departments because they happen to have big budgets. Um you know, big budgets are are what they are. you know, they normally because they serve a greater population um have a much more

expensive outlay or they're heavy in labor. Um that is not the problem of of a department head. Um however there are questions that are going to be asked of the school committee um and other departments uh to make sure on behalf of the taxpayer that we are keeping as much pressure downward pressure on on the cost to the citizens as as possible. I think that's you know um particularly uh

the job of this u this committee. Um, so a couple of other questions, Jim. The, uh, chapter 70, um, you know, you got the response, um, that that I've received from the state on chapter 70, um, and it goes back to the tax rate.

Again, however, um, have we ever had a formal request for recalc um, or what's your opinion on on that? Well, so we so the chapter 70 formula in the state. So I I testified at a at a um Department of Ed um run um hearing where they went around they had listening hours around the state and um they're putting together a report from that. Um but what this when was that? Uh that was back

let me think November maybe it was in Freetown Lakeville.

Yeah.

Um so but they haven't issued the formal report report yet. Um but what the findings of the report are going to be is that the chapter 70 formula is a broken mechanism for most communities. It supports the gateway cities. And the unfortunate part of this is that for a long time we were one of um a hundred or so minimum aid communities in the state where what happened was they basically would only give us a certain

amount per student per year uh of inflationary increase. Usually $25 a student. Doesn't amount to much. Um and that's why if I if I had I should uh you know I could add that slide. Um it's it's very flat uh chapter 78. So now there are almost I think there's more than 250 communities in the state that are minimum aid communities. So now we're not alone. Nobody cared when we were, you know, 100

because, you know, they were focused on the larger communities. But now the the formula results in so many communities being in the same position that I think they are taking it seriously and are going to look at the chapter 70 formula.

But it takes an immense amount of political will to revise that formula the right way and to address special needs costs to address um the fact that there's an inequity and I know that there's a lot of needy students in New Bedford like right next door right but their chapter 70 funding has increased significantly.

Ours has not increased and our needy student population has increased dramatically. So what are we doing for the neediest students in the Commonwealth?

We're doing nothing formula.

There's no formal is there an avenue a formal avenue for a municipality to challenge the calculation that they have?

I'd like to know how the um rural districts they made motion. How did they make motion movement on the chapter 78?

So those western mass just got a bump last year I think was their first year of having a new formula.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. there is a rural aid component that um those legislators were willing to advocate for and it's um small but it's something and I the there is a growing sentiment amongst amongst the minimum aid communities that you know we need to we need to put pressure on the legislators to do this but all of the votes I mean there's more votes in other places that are getting more money. So, and when a legislator

Yeah.

is um speaks on behalf of both Dartmouth and New Befford, it's a little bit difficult to uh it's not the same issues.

Sure. Sure. No, we definitely don't have the same issues, although a lot of our kids have the same issues, right? What I'm thinking is, you know, we got one community, they're talking to one community that doesn't want more money going out.

Yeah.

And one community that wants more money coming in potentially from the same community.

Right. Right.

So, I have a question.

Sure. If you had to guess, uh, when do you think there might be some movement on the minimum aid community relief that the one thing that we're seeing and and, um, you know, Cody and Gary um, we we we spoke about a little bit about overrides in the in the Commonwealth, there are more and more operational overrides relating to school funding um, than I mean so many more than than uh in

recent in recent years. And I think the success and failure of those overrides will potentially decimate education in some communities. Um, and I I think at some point the state will have to address it when they see conditions that are poor in in communities that traditionally are not used to that.

Right. So, what I'm hearing, I think, um, is that, uh, there'll have to be a string of 2.5 overrides for a number of communities that fail that have to impact their individual school systems and towns negatively uh, before the state will do anything about changing chapter 70.

If that's the case, then I think that's probably I I have no idea years away from now. Um, and therefore to fix this as it relates to Dartmouth, if we agree that the budgets are growing beyond what we can finance by two and a half% um that we have to fix this or mitigate these rising costs some way ourselves.

I don't know what that I I I could go on, but I suspect there are different ways we could do that, but we're never going to be able to uh close the gap, I don't think, without improving chapter 70 uh funding.

One of the things that I I heard when we were up at MMA was a push by a number of people to have the state raise overall from 2.5 to three for everyone. Um, and that would help every municipality, some, but if you're going for an, you know, these different municipalities that are going for an override and failing, and many, many have, um, this would at least see if there's any support, and it would be

actually easier if the state did it.

Yep.

And then we all benefit than a failed override. The problem is uh I just comment and then I'll be quiet. The uh I think over the last few years the success rate for overrides is about 58%.

And the issue we find ourselves I think the issue we find ourselves we'd have to have a couple of overrides and there to close this gap and therefore the ability to do that I think is is a lot lower than 58%.

Janine Janine in that discussion at MMA about the state raising going from two and a half to three what was the general feeling or reaction to that?

Every municipality clapped.

It's it's very unlikely to happen.

It's a very political um I mean think about we're talking about 1980. What's happened between 1980 and now? Uh and this isn't the first time that the legislature has been approached to move that. uh this isn't the first time that uh communities of Massachusetts have seen downturns and you know pressures on the budgets but I think Jim made a good point when he when he talked about you know that level of

failed overrides uh was x 10 years ago now that's that's probably tripled so is that going to now put pressure on the legislature to say listen there's something wrong here and we need to we need to fix this you know internally internally at the at the state, you know, the state level because it, you know, it's not working on the local level. As Heidi mentioned, it needs to be, you know, and it's just not and

really the the I think the where you're going to get a lot of that is from the communities that are getting state aid already. You know, the Fall Rivers, the Springfields who could benefit probably even more from this, right?

Um it's really a collaborative effort throughout the state. It's not just a Dartmouth going out and it's multiple communities that need this. bring up a point if I may. Um I think the only reason I raised this point is the chances of uh the state fixing it for us in the foreseeable future I don't think is very great. So I think what we have to do as a community

is try to fix try to figure out how to fix it as best we can and mitigate uh the issues that that causes us.

So, so more specifically, Jim, um, we could sit here and debate the state budget all day long. Um, so the the changes to um the needs of the students, right, we're seeing a significant uh increase there and starting maybe to level off a little bit according to the numbers. Um, I think it's important to to ask the question. Uh, it's not mine, so I'll give it to the person who actually sent

it to me. But, um, changes to categories, changes to categories, additions to particular demographics.

Um, has the state mandated, uh, the types of individuals that are categorized in those numbers? um like Atlas, did did did the um the did Atlas change um and the types of individuals or the situations they're in? Uh have those situations been added to um the needs categories?

Um but so do you are you asking if the students in each of those areas if the if the criteria has changed if the criteria has changed for uh how you get that number? No, no, no.

Okay.

No. What what we're seeing is students with knee so you know 10 years ago mandates, right?

Yeah. No, I I don't I don't think this is about um the state saying we need to do something different or more for um for students that we didn't do something for before. Yeah, I think this is more about um more needs of kids and so it's not a question of an unfunded another unfunded state unfunded mandate. No, cuz I think the the Atlas program just to to be specific on that one

when um we were tasked as a an education to educate a particular model of student up until their 22nd birthday. Um what changed is us the school department looking at do we educate them in-house or do we outplace them and then the numbers of children um that fit that category uh and how can we better serve them and having seen the Atlas program cuz I'll be honest when I first heard about the Atlas program's

proposal um I thought why now but having seen it not just on our walkthrough the other day But I've I've internally um spoken to both the teacher and gone in to see the program.

I think it's fabulous that we take this initiative to educate our students, these Dartmouth residents, you know, the children and grandchildren of Dartmouth residents within Dartmouth High School um through their 22nd birthday. can, as Jim said, provide them with these life skills so that they can go out into the community and find a job and potentially be more independent. That's one specific thing.

I think the the the lines of how we define high need students. Um, and I think this is uh important for folks at home to know is our Jim, I don't know if you can go back to that slide.

Yeah, thank you. of course is the number of families that are now in the um the program in no in the low income if you look at that I mean in 2015 we were 18.5 now we're 28 we had a bump now 2122 was impacted because that was the co year and there were a lot of things that you know people had lost their jobs and things like that so I can understand

that bump and now we're back over at 28.

Um, I think there are are people and these are only low-income of our students.

This doesn't tell us how many low-income families they are in the town. So, these are just families with children in the school. I think people would be surprised to know how many families, how many residents in our town fall into that category. So take that number along with the the population that Matt Dansero works with through the Council on Aging as our outreach person when he

tries to get, you know, services, Mass Health, uh, you know, veterans benefits, all these benefits for our folks. We have a much higher number than that. And I think people would be surprised.

I I did some research a while ago, about a year ago, and I think it's about a third Yeah.

of folks in town which is a lot of people which is a lot of people which I think is kind of thousand people roughly 34,000 and a third of those are so when you look at the yellow line which is students with disabilities and you see how that has increased I don't honestly believe that um that there has been a wider swath of trying to capture students with disabilities but I do think um

When you're in the buildings, it's noteworthy the changes of characteristics in our learners and our students.

Is it safe to Oh, sorry. Sorry.

Is it safe to say that um Jim on this graph if you looked at the high needs um that CO was a direct um result of additional high need students?

Yeah. I mean I I think we were seeing it in the community like you could see it in the community precoid, right? You could see, I mean, when you go from 30 to 35%.

Okay, that's only 5% and considering we're at 43, you don't think it's a lot, but going from 30 to 35% is a significant change in terms of student need in the community, never mind going all the way up to 44% um with the COVID bump. So, we were definitely seeing that increase. Um I mean you can you can see the the income issues precoid so high needs high needs qualifies captures the lowinccome the students

with disabilities but also ESL students um so it's theoretically people that were that were not low income it would be everybody yes special yeah Right. Yeah. Right.

Right.

And uh so high needs do you does somebody actually have to qualify? I mean how do you qualify for high needs?

Well it it so you you the only thing you qu well the only thing really on this calculation that you qualify for would be a IEP an individual education plan.

Um and that would mean you're a special needs student. So the yellow uh a student with disabilities. um in terms of the yellow. So how the blue are we capturing? Yeah, blue right. So the blue is determined primarily by participation in any state program for assistance.

So SNAP different different funding programs that support families. So when a family um qualifies for some form of assistance, they are put into a database and all of the information regarding their students um comes to the state.

It's not based on income.

It it is it is based on income.

Each of the programs the constituent that are no just low income is based on that you qualify as a low-inccome person put you in that low income.

Yes. Yeah. And then um I guess what I was asking maybe I didn't say it correctly. How do you become a high need student because you're in that low income group?

So good question. So the gray line high needs is actually the So some of these students could be the same student, right? So a student could be low income and special needs.

They could also be and I didn't put a line because it would be busy and we have very low incidents. a um student where English is a second language, we have very low incidents in the community of that. It's not a significant driver of of of um you know cost. So it's not included here. But any any student who falls into the lowincome special needs or or um English as a second language categories

would be in the gray number.

So, some of them will be in both blue and yellow.

Well, I think I heard you say that to get in that besides if you are low income, participate in one of those programs, somebody in the school system evaluates Yes. them and places them in a high needs category.

Correct. Uh places them in a in a individual education plan. kind of gets you on the on the yellow line there in terms of having a a disability.

I mean, in retrospect, if with you know, if CO didn't happen, those two, the high needs and the low income could probably now be trending around around the 30s, you know, maybe 30s on the on the uh on the low income side.

We were way back, right? and in the high needs. It'd be interesting to see in communities across Massachusetts if this is the case, and I'm sure it probably is because it affected everybody at the same pretty much at the same level. And you know, it's just um it's very interesting to see that they're both uh almost identical.

I was on and high needs. I was on a Zoom call last night with um through Leslie College and um with educators who are across the straight state and we um are working with trauma- sensitive populations and we're seeing across the state uh right now and we're we're attributing a lot of it to the COVID in the aftermath is um unregulated students behavioral issues unregulated unregulated. So they're unable to

self-regulate and that is causing a big impact and having you know some background in education just a tad. um the RBTs which I know were mentioned here uh primarily you know we ask I know they work with an autistic population but it's also behavioral needs trying to get students to regulate their bodies to become learners and it seems like it's across the state people are saying this

uptick and a big change since co and now these co babies are now in as kindergarteners and um seems to be a big need what you need uh Just to clarify, Jim, so if someone falls in the low income category, are they um do you determine anything about their needs beyond the fact that they're low income?

Well, I mean we so their needs are not based on income obviously and and uh so every student is um we try and address the needs of every student individually.

So while the yellow line is specific in terms of an individual education plan that's created related to a disability, there is not the same um type of um determination based on low income, but it is a good indicator of issues that are um that are facing in the community and that impact students at school. Um it's I think it's general to say that a low-income student would not have the

same benefits at home as a as a child in a non you know non- lowincome house especially for educational opportunities.

Um maybe but they might. Um but the this was a important number for us to get because that dictated which children would get free lunch, you know, and so that's really why we would try to capture that. Right now we're we've been fortunate because the millionaires tax in Massachusetts has gone directly to fund all breakfastes and lunch for all students across the state. So, it's not um it's not as

important, but it is something that I know way back when when I was tracking data for my for the school that I was employed at, I would take a look at who receives free and reduced lunch and what other services do they also get. And I'll be honest, there was a correlation with the services that they also needed.

So, so for data, um let's let's get back a little bit more specific. So the enrollment numbers that I see are in a downward trajectory. Um however that's the total figure uh for current year.

What are you seeing on the inside of the system uh through the grade schools? Um and and how is that going to impact total enrollment going forward? I know the needs are uh the enrollment might be a little bit lower, the needs are are higher. Um but what are we seeing going up? Yeah, I mean I I you know I think the sort of the the three key pieces of

if you were to draw three lines, you'd have these lines of increased need of students, you'd have um decreased staff through the years. Um so our our class size has increased uh because we have either either reduced staff or um reallocated staff to meet the the high needs of students. Um and and I I I suppose that um the increased needs, decreased staff mean more pressure on um individual

staff in the schools needing more support and low staffing ratios are a problem for us. And so I mean that's that's the trend. So we need more staff to support the kids with high needs and we need more staff to support the kids in just every classroom.

All right. So how how is it affecting the outcomes? Um we're doing pretty well compared to, you know, surrounding towns.

Yeah, we're I mean we're doing pretty well. We're we're an above average. I mean that the beauty of the beauty of what I think we've been able to accomplish with you know spending in the bottom 15% of the state u is that we're providing an above average educational opportunity for a cost at the bottom. Um, I think we do that because we have a very committed staff. We have more than half of our

staff live in Dartmouth. Um, so live and work here, pay taxes here, own homes here. Um, are integral to the community and um are dedicated and they we also do it because they get paid less than people in surrounding communities.

What about attendance and truency, Jim?

Uh, attendance of students. Yeah. How is it?

It's a It's something that is a is a problem here. It's a problem statewide.

Um it's an area that we really want to uh you know really are focused on and um it similar similar to what I was talking about before it since co it it has become an increasing battle uh in terms of attendance of of students. Um it's something that we're we're focused on.

It's part of the strategic plan.

Jim, um I and sorry Chris, I too had received some information um and numbers for example in 2006 2007 that was the peak of enrollment in Dartmouth public schools of 4,36 students. Um, and now we're about a thousand students less than that.

Um, and in 2006, which I think we may have opened 2002, we opened the new high school that was 2400 um, students across the district.

We're we have fewer students. the student teacher ratio from desi in those times. So if I look at 2006 we were 15.9 uh to one student and now we're at 12.3.

Yeah. Yeah. So that's I think education has um evolved since um you know in in the last 25 years fairly significantly. Um I I think that the need for staffing um as it relates to individual student needs is something that um is very different from 25 years ago.

And um you know you you you you look at our staffing ratio as it compares to other communities in the state and it's still low. So they're even you know so yes it has changed for sure. Um but the model has changed and the thing is that we also had you know in the teens uh in terms of high need students back then and now we're at 30% more than that.

Do do you have the total number uh in that do you have the total number of teachers now?

Uh so so we have about 270 teachers right now.

um and that you're saying has decreased over the years.

So we have um mostly reallocated. So for instance in the last 5 years we have reduced the number of sections of elementary uh classrooms significantly and we've the result of that has been increased class size. But at the same time, we've also shifted those positions typically to special education positions because of the increased needs of kids.

So the the the direct answer is that most of our reductions have um resulted in shifting of resources to meet individual needs. Again, the numbers stayed pretty steady.

Pretty Yeah, pretty pretty steady.

Um, in is the is the budgeting done the same way as other departments in town?

Is the software the same? Um, we have so the school department has its um has a separate software package for budgeting. So, like I don't want to get too into the weeds, but there's a um there's a account code structure for that is um uniform throughout the state for education.

So, if there's any accountants uh interested, I'd be happy to show you what that is. Um but it um it's very specific. So where the town accounts for our budget on the lines that are voted at town meeting which are only a couple of lines, we have hundreds of lines in terms of detail because our reporting to the state needs to be by school, by type of expenditure, um, and very specific as it relates to

operating budget, grants, and so forth.

So, so I guess the basis of the question is I know that um finance has tried to get all the other departments to report uh you know their inputs in a in and forecast uh in a very similar way. Am I right Gary? We've tried to get everybody to kind of report the same way uh in all the departments.

Yeah. So, uh, Jim uses a it's the same vendor, but it's a different, um, uh, different, I guess, program within that vendor. So, we use, um, use Munis, uh, and, uh, it's a Tyler product that they they also use, uh, infinite infinite uh, infinite vision and we use the regular general ledger that's provided. So, it it's a little bit different. Um and we had we had uh looked at this I think maybe last year

the year before because our auditors actually brought it up you know uh why aren't we all on the same platform um and hadn't made a comment in the audit uh you know accordingly so we looked at it um it would be a big you know undertaking to try to merge this uh not to say that communities don't but uh some of the research that I had done a lot of communities uh on the two separate platforms

all right so that that's all well and good um you know, you don't want to spend um spend money if you don't have to. But I guess the concern is uh is the reporting that you receive from the schools um adequate? You know, is it is it in a similar format? I'm sure that we can pull whatever data you want out of the system, but um is that information does that come to uh the finance department?

Um so, you know, we we're kind of all on the same page as far as forecasting goes. We we don't get it in the format that we have it in, but if the request is made, we could get that from Okay.

from the schools.

All right.

Um it would look different, but I'm I'm I'm speaking for Jim, but it would we could get that data if if need be. Yeah, we report in a much in a much more specific way in terms of our accounting system.

So like yeah, think of think of it as a think of it as a string of account numbers. Their accounts go out even further.

on that on that story.

Have you been in a need for additional information from from their budgets in the past?

Um well, you know, as Jim mentioned, when the budget is voted at town meeting, it's it's pretty much pretty much three four numbers. That's what what gets voted on. Um I know that it's printed out in their um budget package.

Uh the level of detail, uh we don't get that on an annual basis um to to that level of detail. That's not forwarded to us but the school committee has it. That's who the school committee has it. Um it's visible on their website. I believe Jim puts it on part of the budget package, but um formally, no, we don't get a All right. Well, I I guess the overall question is if you needed something uh

you could request it.

Yes, you could lay it out. I essentially what what I'm trying to figure out is is if we can lay out and get rid of some of the the questions on school budgeting uh in line it as uh we do with all the other departments. If if there's a need to do that then great. I I'm sure that we can pull the information or request information and and have it filled in

the same way. I just don't know whether it's a thing or not, you know, whether whether it would be helpful to, you know, the finance committee. um or if there were questions from the finance committee about um data that is on the school system side that is not in a the same layout as all of departments.

Yeah, it may look it may look different but I think the categories as far as um the categories may even be different too but uh if the that level of detail was ever requested yeah by the finance committee or or administration uh we we would we would then ask that from from them. Um Jim, the um the new positions um that became available this year so far.

Oh.

Um during the school year.

During the school year, um I the question is how how many normally during the year do you run into that you have to replace and are you having difficulty u replacing those?

There's a few there's a few positions um particularly in relation to special needs that we found very difficult to to to fill. I mean, as I mentioned, we're So, part of the reason that we have a 3.5% salary increase for our teaching staff built in for to the fiscal year 27 budget is we were hoping to be able to make up some ground in terms of our our competitiveness in in relation to the

other communities, surrounding communities. Um, I don't really think that that's happening with 3.5%, but we tried. Um, so I I think what we what we've seen more is that newer teachers um are less likely to stay long-term than they were. I think that's maybe the way it is in the world now that in terms of people taking a job um where they hope to be in a position for 20 30 years

I don't think that's as prevalent. So the let's let let me just interrupt you for a sec. So that that's an interesting point because when you look at when you look at average salary throughout the towns and you look at Dartmouth um that does not take into consideration uh the tears, right? So maybe if there's a problem similar to what we're doing with uh class and comp now on on the town

side of the budget, uh is that something that on the school committee uh they have to look at? Yeah, we have problems at the bottom of the We definitely have problems at hiring new new staff.

Um, that said, we generally we're a good community, good place to work, good school district, and generally speaking, we're able to fill positions. We might have 10 positions during a school year that change on, you know, which is more than we'd like because you do invest a lot of time and and and effort and money in terms of professionally developing staff, but um can you think of specific situations

where we missed someone that the school committee or the administration really would have liked to have hired and they just they couldn't get there?

Yeah. I mean, so years ago, we we started I mean, talking benefits early in the process before we got to a finalist to eliminate because we were getting to finalists and they'd walk away, right?

Um, so I I, you know, applaud the work that that that Cody and Gary are doing on health insurance. I think it's fantastic and and I hope that um you know it's something that that helps us be competitive in in in terms of our benefits package that that coupled with the salary. So people are taking a pay cut to come work here. That's a tough one for most people to choose. Um

when you build the uh the benefit side into it because the the because the salaries that Desi reports Yeah. Like I said, they're they're average numbers, but they look pretty competitive. However, when you when you throw in the benefit side, and that's why I give these guys credit for taking this up through the insurance committee uh to try and put as much pressure on that program as we can

to try and make it as as competitive as we can because I think, you know, the the teachers the teachers have been heard as far as the benefits package. I think, you know, everybody understands that and you have to stay as competitive as you can. You have to be careful. Mhm.

You have to be careful as a town because, you know, on the commercial side of the insurance, I I've run into that issue before. If if you're uh if you're giving it away, be careful what you get. You're you're going to get a lot of participation and it's going to drive your costs right through the roof.

So, it's it's a very delicate balance between trying to take care of the people that are currently on the books um in making their positions as competitive as possible and getting a you know, good product out of it. Go ahead. Sorry, just I have a hard stop at uh 9:30.

Okay. Y just so we can Y uh let me see.

So no, so you're you're not having trouble on the salary side. It's mostly benefits that you're running into problems with salary side to a degree.

Yeah. Yeah. But Oh, yeah. Yeah. For sure. I mean, that's that's probably our biggest area of turnover is the education support professionals, power professionals. One of the things that you run into on the commercial uh in the commercial world is that there there are no guarantees. There are no guarantees in jobs that you get three and a half% a year. It's just, you know, it's only in

the public side that we see these things. Um so there are a lot of people on in that are taxpayers that are going to go to the town meetings that are going to um you know debate some of these issues hopefully soon um that are going to bring that sentiment to these meetings. So um you know pressure on those numbers has to has to be held.

Yeah. I think what you know I think what we're seeing too is the candidate pools are much smaller than they used to be.

So cost.

Yeah. Yeah. And and typically like we're able to get good teachers to come.

Yeah.

But typically they're experienced and they come with a price tag attached. you know, they they might be at top step in some other community and want to come here um because it's a nice place to work in a good community and um sometimes they live in the community, whatever. But but that is a big difference for us than our old hiring pattern which was uh you know we attempt to get new talent

inexperienced folks uh but with great potential and that pool of candidates isn't here. Is it the smaller because people are not becoming teachers? I think that I think part of it that and part of it is that you know if our low end of our salary scale isn't the isn't great and if health insurance costs are high and salary is not great doesn't make us the place to come.

So I know the class and comp is on the is on the town side. What are we doing on the school side about that issue?

Yeah, we've never we've never done one of you know those studies. I know I know what it would say, but um so we uh when we were negotiating last year, um we we have a database that we pulled we were able to pull data from all over the state. Um in terms of our teaching contract and and yeah, I mean it shows that we're not we're not we're not average.

I'd like to be average.

I'd like to be average, too. I think I've said that in a public meeting. You don't want to be the highest guy in the street. You don't want to be the lowest.

You're going to be in the middle some other problems for attracting new teachers. And this isn't a Dartmouth problem. This is a state problem is a new teacher. So you're thinking someone that's just graduated and now they come in and within their first five years of teaching, they must also get a master's degree if they don't have one um before they can be committed in year six. And you have to think about

that is you're thrown into this very new experience and you're creating lesson plans and keeping up with those daily demands. Plus, you have to take courses. Now, we're fortunate that our town offers $1,000 a year towards your courses, but to get your masters in five years, you got to take more than one course uh uh per year. and you're outlaying more than the $1,000 is not going to

cover it to get your master's degree.

Also, think about you are 22. So, you're 22 to 27. What else are you doing as a 22 to 27 year old? You're not just correcting papers, working on your own papers. You probably also have a social life. the number of teachers in their early years that also are trying to have a romantic life. You are it's almost impossible. And I sadly we lose a lot of candidates because they're looking at that thinking, I want more

than this. I want to have a relationship and I want to start a family and I can't do this on top of everything else that I have to do. Um and that's on a Dartmouth issue. That's a state issue. That's a desi rule that you have to have um your masters within your first 5 years. I think it's too much. Um some colleges and universities have put in a fifth year of college and you get your

masters. So you come out with your master's degree and what that does on our side is then you're starting someone at the master's level on the salary scale. So that's a little bit more money, but at least it takes off the burden of them trying to do all of that within their first five years. I I think it's a lot when you're a new teacher, especially at the elementary level. In

those first five years, you may not just be teaching one grade level. In those first five years, you may be bounced around to a couple of grade levels. So you're learning new curriculum. It's it is not easy. And um it's hard to maintain um that commitment.

And I know we're running up against it.

Um do you have any specific things that you want to bring up because I might run a couple of minutes.

I just want to walk.

Okay. All right. All right. Uh let me see. So a couple of other things here.

Um the uh operational assessments.

Um, do we uh we've got the audit, right?

Uh, we've got we've got a company that does the the budget for the whole town.

Does the audit for the town?

He does the audit for the town. I I've um I've requested a little bit more detail.

Um I think it on one on one piece of that audit that would have been helpful to know in relation to our uh um what do you call them? Sewer and water uh enterprise funds. Um but Jim anyh how do how do you do operational assessments? I obviously you're looking at these things all the time but in um in my profession we always had you know every five years or so brought somebody

in to uh to basically hit us with a ruler and say why you doing this why you doing that um they have a kind of a a greater view of the whole operation.

Yeah, we so you know we we use the town auditors from a financial perspective.

Um we use the town auditors to to do our um annual department of ed end of year audit in conjunction with the town. So um that's similar but um like for instance there's there's no shortage of oversight from the department of ed. For instance, we just did a um a tiered focus monitoring, what they call it. I know that doesn't mean anything to anybody.

It doesn't mean a whole lot to me to be honest, but it it um it uh is a every three-year cycle where they look at our special ed program. Um, and it's quite detailed in terms of policy, procedure, and uh what we do for kids in in in special ed. So, we just got done with that. We were um we don't have the the full report yet, but we were pleased

that uh they you know, they told us we're done and, you know, no major findings. So um so things like that but the department of ed we also have one coming up uh procurement uh related um audit from the department of ed. So there's a cycle of different uh department of ed related um audits that we go through. We also at the high school level are have an accreditation program with with uh you know with NEAS

a New England group um who accredits high schools. So we go through that cyclally every few years as well. Um so so we we we have a lot of you know have a lot of people looking over our shoulder for sure.

Question though the audits that I'm hearing are really financial audits.

Uh not the the tiered focus monitoring has a financial component but that's mostly relating to students and and special needs. Um the there's definitely some financial uh you know we have a certainly a significant amount of financial related audits. Um from an educational perspective our accreditation process and the different department of ed visits um they have several different audit sort of programs that they do

but they're not um they're not operationally oriented.

They are the department of ed stuff is mostly operationally um with usually have a small finan you know a financial component but um but yeah they're they're more operationally geared. So they so would they compare you against other towns and suggest other towns are doing things that you should be doing or they'd be they'd be making sure that we're meeting the state requirements and

um regulations that and there's plenty of regulations.

Would they do diagnostics to say how you could how you could meet state regulations? Yeah, usually. So, most of most of the model for most of these with the department of ed is they we provide them with information. They come down, audit the information, make sure that we're doing what we what we say we're doing, and then uh have a period of response to their any findings, and then

um corrective action plan of you know, how we would uh how we would correct a finding and then have a midcycle monitoring to make sure that that's still being implemented and then come back again in in a few years. So for oddly enough, although the US Department of Ed is like almost no longer in existence, the state department of ed has doesn't seem to be slowing down. So they're they're still still pretty

involved in our in our daily lives.

All right, I got a couple of specifics left and then we'll we're going to get into the next meeting and minutes and things like that.

Um uh turnbacks. uh the the school department um the school department does not um have a similar system I guess for um year end um and the the turnbacks are pretty small uh from the department y which on a a pretty good budget pretty good size budget uh I think how much how many turn what did we get last year what we get last year in turnbacks not How much? Couple couple thousand bucks.

$100.

Yeah.

Yeah. So, uh it's either genius budgeting or um we're we're spending uh we've got some purchase orders going out in uh in April, May, and June. I don't know which one it is, but I would assume that we're we're looking at um we're looking at numbers at the end of the year. Um that I guess that's one of the questions that I had when we when we try we're trying to align these budgets with

all the other uh all other departments.

Um how do we how do we handle uh funds that were not expended you know in the department you know I I I think there's sort of two key factors to talk about with that. I mean, I think, you know, we are trying to do a lot with a relatively I know I know, you know, $55 million is a lot of money. I appreciate that, but um it's not a lot

of money in comparison to what the work that we're actually doing. So when we're, you know, $3,800 per pupil less than other districts, we are getting good bang for our buck here.

Very good bang for our buck. So I think that's important to remember. But what we do do at year end specifically is we so there is um so master's general law allows prepayment of special education tuition for the following year and it also allows prepayment of any services provided by a collaborative. So there are these special education collaborative groups that exist in the state of which we're a member of two. Um

and you can you can um prepay services.

So at the end of the the fiscal year every year for the last 15 years that I've been here and they were doing it to an extent before that um we prep we use whatever money we have remaining to prepay special ed tuition.

So special ed tuition is incredibly volatile. We talked a little bit about what to, you know, the types of things tuition um you know impact the budget. I mean they can they can one tuition can cost you $300,000. So excuse me. I really have Yeah. No, that's thank you for appointment.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Um so you know since one you know one tuition that you didn't know about at the you know the time of budgeting the prior year can cost $300,000. So what we do, we don't have a special education reserve fund. Some communities do. What we do is we prepay the special ed tuition in June for or May for the following um school year to the extent that we can. And that allows room in the

budget for uh to cover an emergency.

outliers without coming back to the town and either asking town meeting for more money in October or um or the finance you know what finance committee for a reserve fund transfer as long as you continue to to um fund uh to to the process of prepaying it has no financial impact. you're prepaying in this year for next year and then you're doing it again with the same money the following year. So you're just

playing the float like okay it's there when we need it. It's there when we need it. Hopefully we never need it. If we did need it we would then have created a sort of fiscal cliff in which we then would need to come add it to the next year's budget. So that tuition rather than going up 9% would go up whatever like I don't know who knows depends how much 30%.

Do you have any examples of surprises that have happened where you where you've hit that number?

Every single every single year something happens. Um, I will say that there's either students that move into the district that we didn't know about June 1st and within the year things change with a particular student that we realize we can no longer I'm just thinking of my experience as an educator in town. We can no longer service this child in the regular school and we need to look for, you know, an

outside placement and all of those costs that we didn't know about. And it's not just moveins. I mean, when a student turns three, um, you know, so we we we have to begin to provide services um, even preschool age, right?

So, um, you know, it doesn't have to be a move in from another uh, you know, another municipality. It can be a student right here in Dartmouth who now meets now gets to school age and has a significant level of need that you know that we didn't know about until they got to that point until they were 2.9 until they hit their birthday. I I guess and I'm going way back to the and I've

used this example with a couple of guys so I'll borrow them with it but um in a in a parochial school uh in a Catholic school in New Bedford uh at the end of the year uh I never it never dawned on me why but it you know in fourth grade I remember the windows in the third floor being open and the heat pouring through those windows. Uh and years later I

discovered that the reason for that was because the nuns would keep the uh register on and we would burn the oil because the dasis would never give them more oil the next year unless they hit a number. So the the bishop was pretty pretty tough on his numbers, I guess. So and and you'd freeze your tail off in uh you know if if you got a cold man. Um,

so, uh, my my my concern is that with the numbers being able to internally be able to move those numbers around, um, and if you have, you know, a large surplus, um, you know, m maybe maybe the special ed reserve fund is is a good idea. It's it's almost like an internal um specialty fund that uh you can pull from, you can uh bring to town meeting.

Um and you know, the school committee can run with that with what they want or tell me to you know, keep it in my hat.

But, uh I I think that that's one of the questions that it well, one of the things that for me anyway is illuminated with the difference in budgeting in the way that the funds are handled. I mean, we're pretty tight.

I don't know if it's good or not.

Yeah, we're we're pretty tight for sure.

Um, and again, Jim, I I want the people to understand this. This is not an anti-school thing. This is, you know, how do we align ourselves to be able to help the school department do the best they absolutely can with the funds that the uh the town has available.

So, Jim, when we prepay tuitions, are we locking in to the tuition charge that they Sadly, no.

Oh, that is sad. Sadly, we don't get we there's no prepayment discount. Um, so the Department of Ed determines the rate for the new year in the spring and when they determine that rate, that's the rate that we have to prepay. Yeah, it would be if if we could get a discount.

Sorry, I lived in a That would be fantastic.

Place called Hope.

Yeah.

Uh, let me see. So, last one. Um so so I guess the ask Gary um is if we could um bring forward any departments that have operational increases, personnel additions with increases in budget uh to this committee, you know, start taking a look at those and try and figure out exactly which ones are the outliers. Uh if we can have them come in, we'll get a little drill down a little bit more on the figures.

Go ahead.

We don't have any.

We don't have any.

I'm sorry. We our DPW administration is adding uh DPW business manager. that will be 25% funded by the general fund.

Um other than that we have none. We pulled the facilities director position which was the other proposed position.

So um we have no new staff increases.

Yeah. The rest of that would be funded by the uh enterprise enterprise fund. You what you'll see is um is typical increases to to utilities.

Yeah. you know um gas electric uh but some of the departments have um so no outlier uh operational increase uh in expense in any of the other department other than contra you know contractual so it you know you're seeing some increases based on IT contracts rising at about 5% yeah um postage in some areas postage gas electric but no no operational changes that that I forgot this one um you know one one

concept to bring public um I think is it's an important one um and it goes both ways as far as income and expense um is education the education budget in the town um and the school department is one thing but what people forget is that the town is also spending uh quite a bit of money for the folk education uh for Bristol Aggie uh and also some of the expenses that are paid out of the town

budget that are. I don't know if they are or not. Um, but we've got the SRO's for the school department that we're paying through. How do we pay through through?

That's the police department.

So, that that's going through the police department. So, in my in my opinion, that should go to the overall, not the school department budget, but the overall concept for the for the citizens when they think and they look at this these expenses uh of an education expense. We've got H SRO's in those schools. I think we have four. Four, three or four. Four.

We have three.

Three. Yeah.

Um so, uh and and you know, extremely important uh to everybody in the town to have those positions available. Um but they have to be paid for. So, they're paid out of the uh the police department budget. Um we've got um liability uh lines of uh expense. We've got property uh casualty insurance that is paid for um by the the the town budget overall budget for the uh that protect the

school department buildings in liability I believe right um when it goes to education um and then the assessments obviously the assessments for Bristol Aggie and VOCA just you know there's no control over that we I can't go to Jim and shake my finger at and say, "Why? Why is this going so high?

It's just an impossibility." However, the town has to realize that when we're talking about the budgets, it's it goes to the overall education of our kids.

Uh so, it's an expensive gig. uh instead of 56 or 60 cents of a dollar that we're spending in this town for uh for a school department, they have to uh they have to remember that we're probably closer to 72 or 73 cents uh on a dollar for education alone. Um in the benefits package too, which is on the town, you know.

Yeah. The insurance. So, so it it might be worth having that example of what each department with all of those pieces so that people know.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So, we can for the next meeting we can prepare a um spending uh breakdown of you know what by category. So, you know total cost of education that the town of Dartmouth pays is this um general government uh public safety.

We can we can categorize those other labor intensive. They're they're labor intensive categories and you can expect a big number for for all of those because um because it's just a big cost of doing business, you know. Um but uh that was the the last thing I had on there. Um, so the next meeting, um, so I think we've got the fact that we don't have other budgets that have any significant operational outliers uh, in

them. I think we'll we'll probably have enough. Gary, you having your you're having your your meetings internally?

Are you done with all of them now?

Oh, yeah. We finished those in January.

All right. So So we're all done with them. So now we can we can discuss um the overall budget trajectory in the town. Um uh ideas to overcome uh one-time operational budgets uh uh problems with uh potentially overrides.

We can talk about debt exclusions. I think I think in my personal opinion, I think we're at a point in this town where we need to address um structural deficits. uh Proposition two and a half is not um is not sufficient to handle some of the expenses that we're seeing going forward. Um and you can't go to the well uh every other year for an operational override. It's just not

going to work. Uh and it's been proven through the state. Um so we need to come up with an idea of exactly how we're going to handle these things going forward. They're tough tough choices to make. Um but they're important. We, you know, we have a fiscal responsibility to every taxpayer, every fee payer, uh, anybody that contributes to the overall balance of our of our revenue, uh, to spend it wisely, to keep as much

pressure as we can, um, and, um, and to save for rainy days um, because they come.

I have a question actually for Janine.

Yes. And really only because Brian has left you but I don't want to speak for Brian for this is a Fincom question. When you get the budgets in from all the departments and you then know Gary has said this is how much with our revenue and our chapter and all this stuff. This is the money we have to balance. How do you go through and make those decisions to balance the budget?

The finance committee doesn't actually balance the budget.

Okay.

We look at each budget independently, each department budget and obviously ask a series of questions like was asked today of Jim and we did the same thing to poor Jim in a previous meeting. Um, you know, we make uh suggestions and we try to just dig into the facts. I mean, we're not we're not the budget balancers of the town. We have a very competent the So, that's when you make the recommendations to town meeting.

Correct. And you we write a very detailed letter that typically includes those recommendations and any observations about what's happening currently in the town. So the finance committee does look at u the total budget looks at all the expenses including not just the depart not just departments but insurance correct um all the categories of insurance all the assessments so those are all presented to them we

haven't done that yet we're ready to do that once we can come to an agreement with the schools uh and that's what we and we usually do that in April okay this isn't time frame usually do that in April I mean we have a whole series of questions that get asked each department that we've supplement the unis forms with anything from their goals to expectations on staffing, you know, that

that type of thing and why they might need that staffing. And obviously that's been addressed already. Um, and the bigger departments come before us. Any department that wants to come to us can if they choose to or we could ask to see somebody else, but typically it's schools, DPW, police are the big ones.

And we just met with library. Yes. Rick.

All right. Um, last piece of business.

We've got um we've got minutes from the last meeting that need to be approved.

I have a quorum, so you cannot approve those.

Um, all right. We'll push.

No.

So, you're not in on my docket from when we originally scheduled meetings. I have next Tuesday as a bag meeting. Mhm.

Um, we've gotten kind of thrown off with the storm. I don't know if you want to push that meeting another week.

Well, at some point, what I'd also like to do is I'd like to change the time at least for one or two of these so we can invite the public in um once we get through I think the next meeting. Um maybe it well maybe maybe at the tail end of that last that next meeting um we give a certain amount of time for the public to come in. Um you know if we're

getting that number of hits on YouTube then maybe we have some people I know that I've gotten emails um people that might want to come in to to ask some additional questions or or um you know have an opinion on exactly where uh these um discussions should go. Um but um what what are you thinking Heidi next Tuesday?

Well, I don't um based on I don't know if we'll have the the collective we um the answers to the questions that you had on, you know, structural deficits, operational debt exclus like what's I mean I do think that I think we'll be good.

Yeah, I think we could show the slide that you did at the last school. uh select board meeting.

Yeah, we can do that for the long-term planning like what we're looking at for a calendar of potentially going out for debt exclusion.

Oh, we can look at that. You know, Gary and I are going to be giving a general budget uh presentation at the joint meeting on Monday. So, we can kind of review some of that. And then, you know, I think this group really needs to start probably at that next meeting digging into kind of that main charge of what are the tradeoffs going to be because, you know, maybe maybe we can find another $100,000

in revenue. I don't I don't think so. I think we're very tight, but maybe we do.

Um it's not going to fix the $2 million problem that we have. You know, we we we've reviewed revenues, Gary and I, over and over again. There's no way we can afford the 6.9 or 6.8 8% increase that the schools are requesting. So that leaves about a million and a half $1.6 million that that we have a gap. Um and so I think that's where we need to really start focusing this group. The

idea working with the finance committee, the school committee and the select board to to recommend I think something that is palatable and maybe that's some additional revenues, some cuts here, some cuts there. Um but it's yeah, I mean it's coming up quick. We're already approaching the end of March, right?

We got to have um budget finalized within the next month essentially.

Budget um usually is out by now.

Yeah.

Uh we have not seen it.

So, it's going to be interesting to see what that does to state aid.

Hopefully, it's it stays the same.

Yeah.

You know, um but as Cody mentioned there, you know, as we get closer, we're fine-tuning the revenues. Maybe we can come up with something that would work with the schools to, you know, uh increase that a little bit. But we're still waiting for our state aid. We got our motor vehicle numbers in.

Yeah, those are slightly lower than uh excise excise tax. Slightly lower than last year's um commitment. So slightly is what?

Couple hundred thousand.

It's not slight.

Well, yeah. It's out of a $5 million commitment. It's that's that's a lot.

Yeah. Yeah. And then, you know, those there those other things we are we have to consider. Um you know, our revenue is continuing to grow. There's no necessarily doubt about that. It's the rate of growth that is slowing down. You know, we're been saying it for a while, but probably going into some sort of economic downturn. Um, here you see the the kind of unrest in the Middle East

that has uh impacts. We were really, this is a a budget impact, so I want to mention it. Kathy Stanley, our energy manager, contacted us kind of right after the the unrest uh developed in the Middle East recognizing that our natural gas contracts for all of our facilities are up um in in 2027, early 27, we should start looking. And we we were able to execute a new natural gas contract with um very small increase to

all of our buildings in town. the increase is going to be like $10,000 a year, $12,000 a year in in the rates within days after that are like double if not quadruple. So we we got in right at the I mean yeah when it was like like even on the oil when it was $70 a barrel now it jumped up to 90.

We kind of hit it in that not days ahead of when it it shifted. Um, and you know, who knows how long that conflict's going to last and the impact.

You know what, Cody, that's a great example of keeping pressure on current expense. You know, things that people don't normally see in um with an an overarching theme of we may have a problem going into next fiscal year with the state uh with uh road uh chapter 90, chapter 70 money, chap, you know, all of it. um when the governor comes out and starts asking or allowing the towns to

charge extra for excise and this and that that is that is a prelude to a problem. So um and then and then there's also I think one of the biggest things it remains unseen is we've mentioned before there is potentially um you know the revenues for the state in the current fiscal year aren't keeping up.

Now there's a potential ballot initiative to reduce the state income tax to 4%. Yeah, if that happens, that is going to have a direct impact.

We will see cuts at our lo to local aid.

No, no doubt.

Yeah. Mid I mean we still have three four months left.

Yeah.

Yeah. So we we may see midyear cuts this year which we we've built um a conservative financial system so we can weather some of those cuts. But if it continues into 27 with potentially a decrease in the state income tax.

Well, he here's a good point. You you mentioned the word conservative. Yes.

The finances and and the way that we deal with finances in this town is conservative. And um you know there are certain people in town that will bring you right to the edge of that number.

You know revenue in revenue out. You cannot possibly run a budget this size when you're revenue in revenue out. It's impossible. There are too many things that come up during the year uh that will throw you right backwards. We have in the backdrop, we have a a bond rating in this town that is superior uh to to many towns and cities and towns in the Commonwealth. We need to keep that

because as a backdrop again, we're going to be looking to fund some of the critical, very critical capital projects in this town. The only way you're going to be able to do that uh effectively and efficiently is to try and keep your your barn rating uh as high as it is right now in the town. And you have to be concerned and the value of that money going forward. If you looked at the difference

between a three and a half a 3% bond rating and and a and a you know 5% is millions millions upon millions of dollars millions onund million dollar school project.

So one one thing that they you know everyone has to be cognizant of uh and you're doing a good job of of keeping those numbers in line. Um we'll push the minutes. Any other questions, concerns, topics? Jim, thank you very much.

Appreciate it. Appreciate your time.

Are we meeting next week?

Can we still do that? Okay. So, let's Tuesday. Tuesday.

Tuesday the 24th.

That's as far as we went.

Yeah.

The following meeting because we're every two weeks would be the same day as the election.

Which is not a good day.

So, should we go to April 14th or is that when you'd like to change the time? Um the the following meeting I'd like to change the time. So let's just stick with next week.

Yeah. Let's leave it for next week and then we'll uh we'll come up with a couple of dates we'll bring up at that meeting and we'll be ready to go.

When you say change the time, are you thinking evening?

Uh I'm not thinking evening. I'm thinking maybe uh later in the day.

Later afternoon. Yeah. That'll give some people an opportunity to uh No, I understand the why. Just Yeah.

Figure out.

I think maybe later in the afternoon maybe four maybe a four o'clock.

Yeah. something like that.

I think that was Chris Oliver had said one side or the other, you know, to not impact his workday, right?

Um, okay. I I have a lot of the other meetings. I've been going to ZBA and some others so I know which.

Okay. Great. Great.

I have them on my calendar. So, when we go for 8:00, I'll let you know if this We're going to say 8:00 next uh Tuesday.

8:00 next Tuesday. All right. Sounds good.

Any motions? Oh, I'd like to make a motion to adjourn this session of bag.

Motion made, seconded. All in favor? I.

Yes.

All right. Thanks, guys. Thanks, J.

Appreciate it.