Budget Advisory Group Meeting September 9, 2026

So, we'll open up the uh September 9th meeting of the budget advisory group. It is 5:00. This meeting's obviously being recorded. Um so, for to start um I just wanted to uh let you know about the timing of these meetings. It's uh it was difficult to get this this this one on the books because um we had town meeting we had um we had a problem with uh with one of the employees um relatives that

passed and it was a a pretty substantial size funeral for her and um and then vacations uh pushed everything back quite a bit too. So, it's been a while and we're really not in the uh the thick of things yet, but um so it's okay, but I'd like to see at the end of the meeting if we can get some some type of schedule that makes sense for everybody.

Um the the RFP um that was sent out, I think you all got the email about the apology for sending it out late. Um, I had asked for it about two or 3 weeks ago, uh, to make sure that everybody got it with more than plenty of time to at least review it section by section to see, uh, what major questions they had and kind of drill down on it. And that that

didn't happen. So, um, so you have it.

Now, my question, I guess, to all of you is, um, if you didn't have a chance to, uh, to review it, um, then we can we can always, um, we can always push to the next meeting if you wanted to. I'll I'll do a vote of consensus on it. Um but if you if you'd rather start with it just to take uh um the first couple of sections and and go through what the

actually looks like. So that would be uh um a good space of time for uh for the public. Um, so those that want to those that want to hold off um and get it to the next meeting or uh those that want to trudge on and and start to take a look at it.

I wouldn't mind talking about it, but I am interested in looking at the portal having Gary because it just came live and to see how much information we've been talking about, you know, people are going to be able to go on and and look at the information and see how much they're putting in those buckets. So, to see what it looks like to see if it answers anyone's questions.

Yeah. And I'm happy to discuss I'm at least start discussing this RFP. I'm curious around a number of things. So Janine um certainly I want to look at the portal of course but I think this could be you know because I doubt people had the amount of time they should have to look at this. Um I think we could discuss something at a high level which would be what is the actual process for this?

Who's involved? who's going to manage what and what kind of timeline do we have for this RFP?

I would agree in the top of what was the thought process for putting this RFP together and who's driving the bus.

Yeah, I I think that it doesn't have to be all level high level. I think we can address specific things here if we think they're great or we think that they should be amended.

Okay.

Jim, any opinion?

I think I think the committee members are prepared to move forward.

That's fine.

Okay. All right. So, um, Brian, you you want to hit the, you know, reasoning behind it? I think we touched on it last time, but just to refresh everybody's memory, in my opinion, it's to find out what level we should be supporting the schools, higher, lower, whatever. uh and then find out when we've reached it and then what impact that would have on the town in terms of financing when we've reached

when we reach whatever level it might I'm sorry I said through the chair to you just I'm confused Robert's rules of a right okay so what am I supposed to do answer you or yes you can answer me so like I said the idea behind it was to find out uh what we should be spending an appropriate level uh to reach the goals of the schools and then find out uh when we've reached

that level through metrics and then find out uh sorry what impact that have uh assuming it's going to be more than we're currently spending on town's finances and then how to deal with it.

Yeah, my my thought on it Chris was uh you know really hasn't changed all that much. My my main concern is you know if the budgets go the way that we think they're probably going to go and they're going to get tighter as time goes on um and the need for uh more funding for special education comes in uh given the number of units that are coming into

town. um do we have a place where all of that data is really coming together and a you know a a third party uh to to basically bring all the data points together so that if we need to go to a an override at some point, what's that override number look like? What does it look like? What what are we anticipating over the next two, three, four years as far as uh enrollments go? uh special education.

Um and right now I think if we were to say, you know, um we need 2 million more a year in the school department and we go to town meeting with that um with the data that you know you guys would would provide obviously from from DESIE and does does that fly?

Yeah. on on that point, the data that you're going to provide from DESIE. Um, the way this is written and like I said, I I just had a chance to really to quickly look it over.

All of the data uh what is the data sources going to be? It's going to be all is it going to be all publicly available data that's already published?

because part of this RFP um speaks about they they can't have any um relationship with the department of education or any educational instit I don't know if it's any any educational institution in the state but where is the data that this firm or firms uh would be putting together where's that data coming from I guess is is my question if we've already discounted that deser is is not we don't

want to trust desi's data So, I guess that's my point is where's the where's the data for this review? And on top of that, the comparables, we're looking to comparable towns and municipalities.

They're going to point you to the direction of the DESIE data security point, the the Desi school profile.

You're not going to have five other school communities um handing out and spending time disseminating documents.

So, I guess I'm just a little stuck here as in one breath we're talking about dis discrediting what's publicly available in the rankings, but yet this company or any institute for that matter that's going to do this study would use the publicly available data. So, it just it just makes me stop and think.

Brian, you want to talk about this? I I don't think there's any discrediting of the data uh that Desi provides. Sorry.

And I think well I think there is because it says an effort to replace opinion with independently verified data and I think that that sentence should say an effort to provide independently verified data because there's always an insinuation that there's opinion and it appears that the data that the schools have been giving out and that DESI's been giving out has been characterized as opinion. So, um I

understand you don't want to have any of these um consulting firms having worked or taking money from government organizations uh state or federal. But I think the basic question is are they going to be allowed to use DESI data because that is the most widely available data and the most pertinent to schools. That's the question. Okay. Because I I think uh part of this will be having some having

these companies come in and talk about where they're going to get their data from and talk about whether uh there is other data available that confirms Styi data or discredit SESI data or whatever.

Yeah. So I I guess the leads me back to the discussion that we had at one of the previous meetings Scott held me. I don't remember maybe April or May was the last one um in which I I shared I came back and I shared with the group here um that I had brought it up as an item agenda item at our school committee meeting about the about the discussion. Um, and I'd just

like to remind this board that the only uh the the only board that can authorize any type of educational audit versus whe whether it's financial or organizational or you know personnel would be the school committee. So, we need to and that's why I'm I'm I'm a little taken back that at least myself or Bess being a part of this bag committee would have been a part of the process of drafting

this RFP. Um, and I guess that's where I am because ultimately it would be the school committee's authority to approve this. If you're going to if if any type of firm or consult group would like to come into the schools and do any kind of work with our administration, that is at the sole authorization of the school committee as under ed reform. So I I guess that's just my little just little rub

that we weren't involved in in this process. And I made it a point at the last meeting. Listen, I think there might be some merit to this. I went to the school committee there. I can tell you right now, I can't speak for my colleagues, but there's no I personally don't believe there's no way in hell this would get approved at the school committee level as is. So I just have

more questions than answers. And I know this is just the first read for it. Um I want to work together. Um but you know, I don't know where we're at at this point.

Janine, what you just said actually goes back to what I asked initially, like who and you said this exactly. Who's driving the bus? And what is the process for this project?

Who's involved? Who makes the decisions before we dig into the content of it?

Which is important. Of course, it 100% is important. But we need to understand the process at this level.

So my initial impression was that this this group would um work together on the RFP um look to bring in a third party uh find out number one what it c would cost to to you know after we try and figure out exactly what the um uh what the inputs would be in in what we're looking to gain out of it. Um so we could make a recommendation to the select board uh and and the school

department. The school department obviously would be uh school committee would have to be involved in it also. Um but um and then find out whether it's worth it or not.

You know I mean we're still not there.

Sure.

Um but you know and the fact remains we've got we've got uh six members on this committee. if it doesn't make sense uh for a majority of the members on the committee to go forward with an RFP in you know in this way uh to try and get information to the public that they can digest that they can feel comfortable about uh that brings in in my opinion desi data but also other things that affect the

overall budget of the town and how it's going to affect the education budget in this particular case the education budget um going forward um that that was that's my initial impression. So I you know I I don't have time to waste. If we want to take a vote on on whether this is even something that we want to continue with then somebody can make that motion.

Sure. Um, but I mean this is the only way Chris that that I could see um that we could at the end of the day if we needed X amount of dollars in an override that we could present to all the stakeholders, the people that are retired, the people that own homes that don't have kids in school, um the people that don't have um a requirement for special education, you know, for them to

understand exactly what the costs to run a school department in this town uh and give them maybe some data points that aren't included in DESIE um to to make a case for X amount of dollars going forward. You know, if they came back, say say we have it done and they come back and they say, you know what, listen, you're underfunded and you know, I don't want to keep going back to this,

but I I you know, it's been a while since we got together. we're we're underfunded by 800,000 a year and you could get X Y and Z and make sure that all these stakeholders are are taken care of and we can explain it to them.

Then we've got a case to go back and do an override for 800,000 bucks a year.

They come back and say, you know what, you're you're topheavy here. You you could do this. This is what this municipality does. Um and we could save you 300,000. It's sticking out like a sore thumb. Then great.

Um Janine, so from everything you just said, it sounds like well your goal is to determine if we have an override and what is the cost? I don't see that in this. I see this as looking for I don't know facts that say how is the schools run, you know, how does it work with the rest of the town?

Well, it's my goal. Yeah. What's your what's your goal in this? Well, I thought it was to evaluate the schools in this particular case. I'm not suggesting that this is perfect in any way, but that doesn't lead to a figure of we need x amount of dollars.

I may, Mr. Chair, I think um I even though it doesn't sound like I do think there's a general consensus of of the group supporting the schools in determining what level of additional funding is needed. So, I I don't none of the um business of giving everyone additional work but it may be worthwhile if Jim works with um June and school committee members maybe Chris and Bess you the the goal of the end of the day

some sort of independent authority doing an evaluation to determine if we were to go for an override right the facts behind it because we all know that we can tell people this is where things are Gary and I deal with it all the time right this is where things are it sometimes s mean more when it comes from someone outside, right? Gary and I say all the time, our finances are in good

order. We still have an audit, right? We have an audit of of all of us and and usually that independent figure makes people more comfortable, right? It's good to have a second set of eyes on things. So, it may be worthwhile for your team to work together to to kind of draft something, whether it's within the confines of what's been drafted or something totally new. if if you feel

like there's not a lot of merit here um that that you would actually feel is beneficial to because to Chris's point it it doesn't go anywhere without the school committee. the school committee has the authority here. But even if they didn't, you know, I don't view that as mattering because we want consensus, right? We don't want this to be a select board or a school committee or finance

committee or this part of town.

No, neither. Absolutely not.

So, I think I think the consensus is important regardless and I think that may be a good place uh to start because you guys know your operations better than than anyone and and what may be helpful, what might not be helpful and then get the the outside input which would be in this case from the finance committee and select board delegation.

um and then go from there. But just a thought so we're not just continuously turning wheels here of okay, we don't agree with this or we don't agree with that and still move forward towards a goal.

Chris, to your point, Cody, I I think it makes a lot of sense uh especially if we're going to if we're because what Chris said, what Mr. O'Neal said regarding, you know, this would be ultimately down the road, this would be the cost for an override to keep the schools operational. I think maybe I there is some merit in an outside company, outside firm if we tweak the RFP looking

at you know the for Jim does a fantastic job of financial forecasting right but I I certainly see even if it's a matter of having another consultant come in and take the data from Jim it is coming out of someone else's mouth that's not associated with the school department I do see some value in that. But to me, the RFP would be specifically around forecasting, you know, over the next

three years and what it would look like if we needed, you know, what would an override fund and how much that would be. Is that what you were trying to get at Chris?

Yeah, that's I mean, that's the way that I think at the end of the day, it's going to end up coming out. Um, but there are certain things that that we don't have data on that I I think we need data on. Um, and I think it's best from another set of eyes to to bring it all together. So, Gary, so I think um these are all good points

and and you know, a lot of times when we're looking at like do stats, desi stats, these these statistics that they're putting out there are more reactive to what a school school system's been through, what we've been through in any particular fiscal year. I think maybe what the goal of this is to get a report out of whoever whoever is going to do this consulting or the firm

would be and to use that as a tool and you know if we want to be a sub you know a a school system that's extraordinary which we already are and I think that if we want to be even that much more extraordinary what is that going to cost and and the residents know that um and maybe that can only be done by an independent person looking at information through Desi and looking at

other stats through throughout the comm throughout the estate and maybe even comparing ing us to other other states.

Uh but I think that that's a that's a really good tool to have so that we can go to the residents and say listen we need we I mean we just met with capital today. We need x amount of dollars to build. We need x amount of dollars to replace equipment. Um that should all be part of this. I mean because we there going to be costs that that come down

the road that we're going to have to do a borrowing for. It's just and we talked about this today. We can't continue to use free cash to supplement the day-to-day operate the day-to-day equipment that we have to buy. these long-term, you know, brand new schools.

That's all stuff, in my opinion, that has to be built into this into this study so that when we get to three, four, five, 10 years out, the residents know exactly what we're asking for and then they have a lot of educational piece behind it that can they can approve it.

I agree with that. And and I think an essential piece of whatever study that would be on the table would be looking at our I call multi-dwelling units are our our 40B housing. How many bedroom you know how many units, how many two bedrooms, how many three bedrooms at at least at the very least what are we permitted? What are we already permitted for and what's in the pipeline? Because

those are the kind of numbers that will significantly not only affect the school department but but affect infrastructure. Yeah, and these are all good points. I mean, and and this is something I think you're not going to get from the Division of Local Services.

You're not going to get from Desi.

You're going to get these from an outside firm that's going to come in and say, "Let's look at your 10-year capital plan. Let's look at what you plan on doing. Let's look at how many units are coming in. Let's build that into some kind of, you know, um report that we can then send back to the community and say, listen, this is what the school department looks to do in 5 to 10 years

out." that I think that's really what the we we've gone back and forth with kind of like a draft version of this, but I think in only my opinion, I think that maybe this takes a little bit more time to Cody's point. Uh let's get a good basis of what we're actually looking for for the next 5 to 10 years because we don't want to buy we don't want to pay, you know, $50 $60,000 for a

report that's going to be stale next year. We want to make sure that this thing is going to last, you know, at least a few years, right, Mr. O'Neal?

Yep. Um, my first concern is when the budget is $100,000 and I wonder like where whose budget is that coming out of and to what Gary just said um how relevant is this data going to be in a couple of years. I know that um Serpad had done some forecasting of residential movement and and now that we do have some projects, 40B projects approved, um perhaps they can forecast uh what the potential enrollment would

be in the schools. I know when we did our last U master plan, it was before we had um any of those kind of in the queue and so it there wasn't a huge change to our enrollment. Um but I I I guess I want to go back to say what is the data that we need specifically because if you look at the data that DESIE provides and DESIE provides a baseline and said this

is minimum net school spending this is the average of the state and where we are and we're below that. So it would be easy enough to say if we were at the average we would need X number more dollars. I'm understanding that what you're saying is with that money, what would you do? It's never going to be our job at this committee to say what anyone would do with the money. That's the job

of the school committee. Um, but I think if we look at like communities, which you can get on the DESIE portal, how much are they spending in administrative costs? How much are they spending in transportation costs? I mean, you can go down the whole line. Um, I think what we're going to find is that there's very little discretionary costs. You know, transportation, uh, for example, is something you bid out every

3 years and you're at the will of those that turn in a bid. Um, you negotiate contracts, you're at the will of the negotiating table. I mean it the utilities I mean there's very few things what it comes down to is how many people do you actually have teaching in X number of positions how many administrators how many clerical how many I food service workers how many custodians how many maintenance workers um

I mean that's where the biggest bang of the budget is not going to come down to paper clips uh general supplies we don't we don't run schools like that anymore.

You know, there's a lot of online technology which in some ways may be more expensive than books, but they don't make textbooks.

It's online technology. So I understand my initial uh conception of bag was to get folks from school finance and select board to understand all the departments and I'm still sitting here thinking I am way more concerned about the DPW than I am of Dartmouth public schools.

Because the infrastructure might of all these new buildings might increase the enrollment in the school. Might but it will increase the storage and water demands on our facilities 100% every unit. Every unit unit may not have a student but every every unit is going to flush the toilet and put water down the drain.

Janine Thank you for your comments because I was sitting here thinking before you spoke that somehow a decision seems to have made been made that schools are more important than infrastructure. I'm not suggesting they are or they aren't. I'm just saying hello. Why are we picking?

I think without infrastructure we don't have schools without sewage treatment.

That would be yes. So why have we we seem to have made a decision that this is all focused on schools when you know there's a lot of different ways to fund things and I'm not the one that makes the decisions about what is going to be debt exclusion versus a two and a half override. You seem to be focused on two and a half override for the schools.

It's like whoa wait a minute we have a lot more to think about.

Yeah. Um it's funny that it's not funny but I mean that funny no that uh you know coincidental that Heidi mentioned that uh Cody and I had just met usually on a Wednesday meeting and um you know it's a good point. You know the school's obviously the biggest piece of the budget but there are other aspects of the budget that still need addressing.

You know um and I think you know Cody and I said well maybe we should step back a little bit uh and revisit what the charge of the committee was. Uh and and we don't want to leave those other I think we would do it a disjustice to those other groups and those other departments if we let left left those out. You know what I mean? Correct. Um and still have the conversation with

what really it's the entire budget.

That's really what this this group is really charged to do. The problem is if we can't if we can't decide on whether we want to do a study on 60% of the budget, then yeah, I mean I I I I think this is a good I think that the RFP tweaked a little bit and brought back to the committee what the schools may want to see um as far as like you know u maybe

incorporating some of the capital projects in there going forward with some of the uh as I mentioned some of the longer initiatives and having one report that can that we can obviously look at that's not stale in 3 to 5 years is a is a good a good start, I think.

Um, and I will only recommend that they they work on it and come back to us at a at a at a later date with Yeah, I don't have I don't have a problem with that. I mean, you just like I said, you just got it a couple of days ago and this is this was cleaned up a little bit, but obviously um we need the input from the school department and I

want the input from the school department. I don't want to, you know, basically say this is it or nothing. um you know because you know um to a greater extent what the system's going to need going forward. I need to make sure that the public knows what the system's going to need going forward and why. And at the end of the day when you've got 300 people at town meeting they have a choice. You know

say for conversation three choices. This is what we have now. this is what we system would like to have and this is you know another option um because if if the background information if the housing information um is is not built in then I I don't think we I don't think the system is better off at the end of the day we're going to continue to have battles over

uh the margins and you know if we want a a school system that um that continues to thrive um that we can stay proud of then I think we're better off doing something collaborating on something like this uh to communicate to the public why we need it why we need X Y and Z in order to make sure the system is going forward in the right manner. Um when when Heidi when you talk about the

DPW and we asked for an efficiency study from the from the board I think two years ago um is the efficiency study after you know we we pair this down get the input from the school committee um get this either on its way or not uh is the is the efficiency study from the DPW the next thing that comes under our purview that's a question for uh and again dealing with another autonomous board

and we're going to ask them to do certain things in yet another study. Is that something that we bring in the fold of of the budget advisory group? I think I think personally it is because they're they're vacasillating. They they they don't know exactly what's being asked of them either. Yeah, I think, excuse me, but also a concern is um I think we're going to ask actually have to look at

consultation with a group that can look at and and determine whether we're going for a debt exclusion or a override. And how have comm the communities who have been successful in getting a um their community to support that, what have they done?

Mhm. because we can we can put a a you know uh something on the ballot, but if we're not selling the information correctly, if we're not providing the information so people go to the ballot and understand why they would vote for it, then that's we've wasted our time.

No, certainly agreed, Heidi. And there is a cons I do have a bit of concern with you know obviously I support I'm strong supporter of the schools um but you know and maybe year two years down the road maybe three who knows you know we're going to be coming to the town at some point for a debt exclusion for a new school and you know we only have so many opportunities and people are only going

to say yes so many times. So, you know, I think we have to be the town the school school department select board for this group needs to be very careful with with what we're looking um to ask the town's people for because I'm I'm very well aware um of the the constraints of of everyone and if it came out two weeks ago when everyone's water bill came out, we wouldn't begin anything.

Right.

Correct. So, I agree, Chris. I think you you only get, you know, you only get one bite at the apple in most cases, right? Some towns you're not even getting that bite. So, um, so it's got to be done right the first time. And you know what we're still, you know, is from a from a timing standpoint, I think we've still got some time to to, you know, get more input from the school department on

exactly what what they feel is most important to be included in this um so we can make an argument down the road.

I'd like to hear from my colleague Bess, but my my personal thoughts would be reconvening our our budget subcommittee um with that the three of myself, Bess and Mr. Kylie are on it. um reconvening the budget subcommittee and having a discussion around what you know what we think makes the most sense um in an RFP um you know and what data I do think you know is a hundred thou $100,000 is a lot of money

um it's a lot of money so you know whether or not there's things that we can we can help with not opposed to it I think I said it before I said it to my my fellow school committee members that I I think there's something to be said about having it come out of someone else's mouth that's not associated with the town, even though a lot of it may be regurgitating the same things that we're

saying here tonight. It's just hearing it from from a different person. So, I would be happy to, you know, to have a conversation with with the budget subcommittee um and then de devise a plan that we can share our thoughts because obviously we need to get the full support of the school committee.

Um, I will just say that I thought uh at the end of our last meeting long time ago um that one of the things we were going to do was to put the questions down on paper. And I feel like that's what this is and that's great, but now we really do need to have input from everyone. And I would say that the school committee and I can't speak for

everybody is that I didn't feel I had particular questions that I wanted on this because I feel that we can in-house answer a lot of questions. So now that we have this um I feel that some of these questions are quite nebulous. Some of these questions can be answered in-house and some of them are valid questions that I don't believe anybody has the time in house to do. So, I do believe having a budget subcommittee

meeting and now with questions in hand being able to address them um and see if they make sense to us um and if they're nebulous maybe tighten them up.

That sounds fair.

Yeah.

Okay. And I I would also say the other thing I thought we were doing from the last meeting was working on lists of uh all the efficiencies that the schools and perhaps the town as a whole has already been making over the last 5 10 years. Um and I know that Jim has been working on that list and I have had thoughts on it. Um I was surprised that wasn't on today's meeting but that's

fine. Um, but that is something that we're asking the consultant to come up with, but they and the town needs to know the ongoing tightening that has been happening in all departments in the town.

All right. So, you'll bring it back.

You made some progress.

Okay. Um, do you want to run through the uh Yeah, we'll run through the portal.

I don't know how many of you have seen this.

It's uh it's relatively new.

So, right off the uh we started uh some of the promotion of it uh just recently. So, this will be helpful to some of the public to see it in action.

I can't if you want. Yeah.

Do you want to go back to the homepage of the website? We can show everyone where.

So, we've talked about launching a budget transparency portal. So, our team's been working behind the scenes to do um to work on that. So, on the homepage of the website now, this is the town of Dartmouth's website right where it says budget overview. If you click that you'll pop this page will populate and so this is kind of the the landing page overview. We tried to get it so it pulled the data directly from the

department of revenue do it it doesn't interface with that. So this is just um they get the data from the American community survey 5-year estimates. So it it varies a little bit from do but it gives you an idea um comparison wise around the state and this is uh through clear grove. You go down, this is uh the fiscal 26 general overview. So it's broken up into revenues and expenses.

This is the general fund. So you can see you can go by general fund and then you can go by each of the enterprise funds.

So G, if you want to scroll up, go to um water for instance.

So this would be if you want to look at each of the general funds individually.

Um obviously revenues and expenses. If you go back to the general fund and hit uh expenses and hit view breakdown uh on the right side, expenses. Yeah.

So, this is pretty cool. What you can do is you could type in what your tax bill is. So, let's say your tax bill is $6,000 and you can hit show my contributions. It actually will break out by um by each individual category how much of your tax bill went to that.

So, obviously we know education is our largest piece of the budget. Education doesn't include just Dartmouth public schools, right? Includes includes all of our costs of education. Doesn't include employee benefits for um our education departments, but this would include Vogue Aggie, things like that. And so you can see Dartmouth public schools.

And then the regional schools would be obviously prim um Newport, Voke Tech, and uh Bristol Aggie if you and then you can also see things like public safety, employee benefits, general government.

If you hit view breakdown, so if you want to go into general government, this will break it down into um so at the top just scroll up Gary for a second.

No, sorry.

This actually will show you how much has been budget budgeted for the fiscal year and how much has actually been expended.

So um fiscal 26 the all the data has been uploaded. So this gives you a full picture of the prior year. So you can see we budgeted a little under 6 million. We spend 5.35 million primar you know various different reasons openings and positions and then it breaks it down by department. So MIS and and what you see the whole time is how much of your tax bill went to each of those departments right in a

hypothetical world. Um so it's pretty cool. So you can see for to fund legal services. If you have a $6,000 tax bill, $27 of your taxes went towards legal services. um you know collectors it's pretty and then go down to um let me think of a good one a good example uh any of these departments so go to um planning board if you hit view breakdown it'll break it down into essentially

what town meeting approves which is your professional services and then other you know supplies expenses um and so obviously planning board's a very small expense budget but you can see it's it's pretty and then it's pretty uh cool you can dig into the data Uh what's this? MI MIS is a pretty good one. So you can see uh go up to the beginning of MIS Gary.

Yeah. So you can see purchase of services MIS that's obviously the biggest driver because of all of our maintenance contracts uh things like that. And then if you go so to the right you obviously can see the growth over the years. Um and then if you have view breakdown it just breaks it down essentially even further right of what those are. managed services for police, contracted

services. Um so it's pretty robust. You can dig into various departments and um get you know this is directly pulled from our financial system. So this is this is accurate data. You have a question?

I do.

Yeah.

I have a software background so excuse me if I dig in a little bit. When you go into like water for example or that enterprise fund does it go in there and break it down to Yeah. pull it up because Gary, you want to pull up the water department?

If you go back to uh over Yeah. Yeah.

We're Oh, you're still Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. We just uploaded enterprise funds.

So, some of it is still getting built out as far as enterprise funds. We really focus on general fund. But yeah, I mean you can see on the revenue side primarily our rates come from I mean our our revenue comes from rates. And if you go up uh to you should be able to go to expenditures.

I got I got to go back. Right.

Try scrolling down. I think are up top. Let's see. Yeah. Keep going.

This is still revenue. Oh, up top where it says overview revenue. Go over to expenditures.

Same.

I mean, and so this I will say this is one thing a little bit if you type in your tax bill. It's really not applicable with an enterprise fund, right? So it's it's one of those things Massachusetts finance is a little bit different than much of the rest of the country. So it's it's not really a useful tool with enterprise funds.

Your water bill your water bill.

You could Yeah. Yeah. Right. So essentially it would be if you annualized your bill then you could put it in um and you would get an idea of of what that looks like.

Is this live yet?

It is. Yeah. Yeah. So if you anyone goes on the website you can get it there. Um and yeah. So if you go down to expenditures go down a little bit more Gary go um to view breakdown.

Uh view break. Does it break down anymore? Yeah. Yep. So it breaks it down. Purchase of services debt uh all that you need. And then the more you hit view breakdown breaks it down even more.

And you can see we we've only uploaded fiscal 26 for enterprise funds. We're working on that other data and 27.

And we'll load the first two months.

Yeah. And we're going to load all the Yeah.

I'm sure you understand where my question comes from because so many people do not understand a what an enterprise fund is.

So they think that if I pay this, it can come out of some other pool to pay for that. And they need to understand your rate went up, right? And here's why in a nice graphic form.

Yeah, I think one of the once we get um 24 and 25 up with the enterprise funds, what you'll see is Gary, if you go back to overview, please, and go down to um do water department again, enterprise fund. Yeah. So, what you see in 26 is we brought in um you know, about $1.6 million more in revenue than we did in expenses.

if what you'll see in 25 and 24 is that was not the case, right? Because we had to make some pretty big adjustments this last year in our water department because we didn't have um we didn't have the ability to bring in more revenue.

So, I think that'll be an important factor to see for residents, right, when they look at these even the simple um charts showing, hey, well, there I know we're paying more now, but it there's a reason, right? And it makes sense now because before we weren't covering our expenses, now we're covering our expenses. The one thing that this does this doesn't have, and this is through

the Department of Revenue that it makes things confusing, is you would think um free cash and retained earnings would be revenue minus expenses. So, a logical brain would look at this and say, "Okay, we brought in $1.6 million more than we spent. We should have $1.6 million available in retained earnings." That's not how the Department of Revenue works.

they subtract liabilities and and so on so forth and receivables. So our our retained earnings for water is not going to be $1.6 million. So when we look at projections internally, we build those things out, right? What we don't want, and this is one of the downfalls of this, it doesn't take that into account.

So someone looking at this may say, why did our water bill need to go up 13% midyear? We brought an additional $1.6 million.

Yeah. It's not necessarily a problem.

This is just dollars and cents. So there is still, you know, when it comes to that a little bit of interpretation, which we'll certainly make sure there's education around, but I I think generally our goal is is transparency.

Um, and that's exactly what this is, a transparency portal. And so yeah, I'd recommend um when you get a chance, play around in it. You can see really dig in to a lot of different data. Um, we'll be uploading more. It's a we upload it directly from our financial system once a month. So Gary mentioned fiscal 27 will be uploaded within the next week or so um through the end of August and then

going forward it'll be uploaded once a month for the previous month's financial data. So it's not real time but it's it's pretty close to it um that people will be able to follow along. The other exciting piece of this is we we'll actually be building our fiscal 28 budget in this software. So not doesn't take the place of munice or anything but we're planning to build a budget book this year. Um, we're going for a

distinguished budget award for our fiscal 28 budget. Gives a lot of information, a lot of background. So, that's that's the goal. And this is a a software that helps us to um to do that.

Prettier than Unice.

So, I think what's interesting it'll be a digital book. You could print it if you wanted, but it'll be a dig.

What was the first chart that was?

Oh, the line the line graph. What was that?

Population.

Population.

Yeah, it's population. Yeah. So this goes under section three of the budget advisory group committee charge trans uh transparency and public engagement support the development of clear accessible budget communication tools for the public and provide input on ways to um increase public understanding and trust in the budget process.

This will go a long way in doing that. I think one thing I'd like to I'd like to see at some point kind of an offshoot is the question of u getting back to the DPW um the comparison between them taking the $140 plus the bags on an average family at three or four uh and then private haulers.

Yeah, I think we if we haven't posted that I know it's been developed um and it did come across my desk for review.

So, if it hasn't been posted, it will be very, very soon. Um, our team did an excellent job. We can't obviously give the names of of the private haulers, but they pulled uh god, I want to say seven or eight private haulers in the area and did exactly that. You know, a single um person who uses x amount of trash, a family of four uses x amount of trash, and did a comparison, and it showed we

were the cheapest option. Um, so yeah, I don't think there's a question about that. When people get the uh the bill increase, then they think they're paying a lot more than they should be, but when you do the comparison, I think they'll they'll find that we are the cheapest one on the street. And and I think we'll be hearing some good news about the refuge district uh expansion

and approvals that they've received. So, we'll have uh many more years uh God willing, of a local way to get rid of the trash and keep the cost as low as possible because without it, we'd be in we'd be in big trouble.

So, Chris, actually, which we can do a better job promoting it, but this was posted on July 24th, there was a comparison of um four four different private haulers. And so, for a family of four trash, assuming a family uses roughly two large bags per week, the smart program cost would under the new fee structure would be $392.

Under um service A, which you would get the bin and recycling, it's $527.

Service B, which is the the trash bin, they're recycling, $671 annually.

Service C um is bags, but no recycling, and that is $1,100 a year. And service D again is a trash car and recycling, and the cost is $1,183 a year.

Was that public information somewhere? I Yeah, it's posted on the website.

Oh, I got to look for that.

And then we did a single person comparison, and that assumes someone uses roughly one small bag a week. Uh, the smart program cost would be $26 annually. Service A4 $493, service B637, C1,71, and D1.49.

I I think if Jess can can find a way to keep that succinct and and send it out pretty little exactly Facebook, it probably came out in July, but people missed it.

And that July that includes the increase?

It does. Yeah. Uh July 24th. So, the board of public works voted the increase on July 22nd and we got this out next couple days.

Yeah. And I think it's important also to keep that as a separate item and we keep talking about it, but you look at other communities in Massachusetts that build these rates into their tax and that don't have the enterprise fund. So, you know, is it really $120, $140 a month or is it really $300 I mean a year or $300 a year? So that's really, you know, no one asked for that breakout in other

communities like in kind, but you can bet that if those communities ever had to break it out, it'd be much more than probably what we pay in Dama for for pay you throw.

People don't understand that um you know, Heidi might have more or less trash than Bess and that's what you're paying for is the amount of trash. They don't get that that if it was in our taxes, we'd be paying for maybe far more. And I know we have talked about that before when we're talking about comparing us is that we do have an enterprise funds and we don't have built into our budget our fire

departments because other communities have the fire department in their budget. I do think that it's interesting that we are um 222% higher than the state median for our population though. I mean, so to service I know land mass we are but also to it takes money to service all those people.

Now if we can just print the guy's name who actually makes the bags on the website.

Yes people in town ready to go that guy.

So is there an increase in the solid waste? Is that what we were talking about? Is that what I heard recently there was an increase?

Yes.

What's the increase? So the increase was um two, you know, $2 onto those bags. So they'll be $7 and $12, but then six and 12.

Six and 12.

Six and 12. Yeah.

6 and 12. So it's only the annual fee went up fee. But then also the fee went up to 140.

140 from 110, you know.

And and what we've been working with, I've been meeting with the U business new business manager, Brandy Sylvia, at the at the DPW. And um I think what we've learned over the last maybe 5 to 10 years is that um there's been really no stability. You know, it's been almost like a you know peaks and valleys with rate increases. So what she's done is really she's doing a great job on this

uh is going forward for the next 5 to 10 years and looking at what that rate increase looks like and building it in so that it's a nominal increase where it's not just like all over the place.

And I think that we've heard that from, you know, residents when we we raise the rates and then the ne next year we don't raise the rates and then they're back up again 13%. So there's been a lot of smoothing on that and she's done a great job of um presenting that to us. I know she went to the to the board and presented that, but we've been working with her closely.

Yeah, steady slow and steady.

Yeah, is always best. Um any questions on this? anything that that you think should be added?

No, it's great.

Really fabulous.

Love a nice visual.

Keep We'll keep adding to whatever.

Yeah, we'll keep adding. I' I'd ask, you know, I know everyone's busy, but if you have any free time and you're interested, take a look. Um, this is new for us. A lot of communities do use it around the state, but it's new for us, so there'll certainly be tweaks, adjustments, things, you know, but we want that feedback. And I would suggest because we've got some school department

people here um take a look at the school section and if there are things that you really want to um you know focus on illuminate just you know maybe maybe we can include them maybe there's a another you know another column that that we can add um to help people understand exactly what it costs. Jamie, is it possible to have a nice demonstration of this at the next town meeting?

We can speak with the moderator. Okay.

Well, it's it's a good point. The the last year uh well, the spring was the first time we did a pre-T town meeting, right? So, we actually went and uh tried to get ahead of any major questions and and uh answer a lot of questions before we got into town meeting just to make it a little quicker and and uh and get some of the objections kind of out in the

open initially so town meeting can move on. um you know maybe maybe that's an opportunity to uh uh to do a quick review of this.

I'm also a big advocate as are others that I know of just doing a town update at town meeting and this would be a great part of it we did that with the long-term capital the presentation I think at the spring springtime meeting some look at doing something like that.

Okay. I think this also shuts people up that used to when I worked say that they pay my salary. Then I could say a piece of my salary. Yeah. Well, thank you for your contribution of $74.

Um, so uh any major changes to uh income and expense uh that have cropped up recently? Anything we should be concerned with going forward? how how are the contracts going?

Yeah, I think we can um you know, Gary and I are we're always looking at the budget, right? But um we're really getting into 28 now with um estimates and it's difficult this early on, but we we look so we look at our most recent data set as we prepare for the next fiscal year's budget. So obviously 26 just wrapped up. So that's the most recent data set that we have to look at.

The the concern that we have, which we've we've shared this, this is shouldn't be a surprise to anyone. Um over the past several years, we've lost our conservativeness that we've consistently had within the town of Dartmouth, which has allowed us to weather some storms. Uh so we do we still have somewhat of a conservative approach, but I mentioned this last year through the budget process, we aid into

that conserviveness to an extent. So um we're concerned with that if something pops up mid year, and we're also concerned local receipts were down a million dollars in fiscal 26. So we brought in a million dollars less in local receipts in 26 than we did in 25.

Um there are a few primary reasons there um I'd say 50% economic drivers and 50% a specific case. So one of the primary uh drivers is we we bring in a lot of money in investment income. We obviously have a lot of cash on the books and so we Gary does an excellent job of of investing that primarily through uh CDs.

We work with Bristol County Savings Bank and they give us some of the best rates around and um rates for CDs went down significantly in 26 versus 25. So we brought in over a million dollars in 25 in investment income. We brought in um 600,000 approximately in 26. We you know who knows where the interest rates are going to go. Um but I think they're likely to be more consistent in 27 and

28 like they were in 26. I I don't foresee kind of huge increases. So that that's certainly something a a concern.

A conservative approach helps us weather that storm, but it's still a concern. We bring in less money than we did in previous fiscal years. Uh our solar, we have a phenomenal um deal with uh solar vendors. And so the town got in at the right time. I got to give Greg Barnes credit because he got in at the right time with his purchase power agreements.

Um and and we we make a lot of money on our solar agreements. And so we buy the credits and then at a significantly reduced rate and then we actually get a check for the credits from the from the solar developer. And so we are one of the only municipalities in the Commonwealth that have this deal. Most municipalities get the credits toward their electric bill, which we actually get it and it helps us stabilize our

budget, which is excellent. Um but those are getting older now. the technology wasn't as good when these were first introduced and so they don't produce as much energy as they did and so we're seeing a degradation in that.

Additionally, um this year we had a an issue with a meter at one of the solar plant at the solar arrays sites. So we've been working with Eversource to try to get that figured out, but that was about another $500,000 that we that we saw a decrease in. Um Well, it dropped that much.

Yeah.

Yeah. In part of it's because of the metering problem, but we but but that's just one of the contracts that we have.

We saw the contracts generally decreased overall because they're just not, you know, it's production and it's really not weather because the weather that's what I was thinking is who's tracking that, you know.

Yeah. It's a conversation we had with Eversource about it. You don't typically see that much of a difference with weather. It's the fact that they're getting older. The panels are getting older and they just don't produce quite as much.

Yeah. They degrade over time.

Yeah. So that so that will continue right in 27 and in 28. Um and then we obviously need to keep an eye on the economy. I mean the the the unrest in the Middle East continues and that has significant impacts on I mean just the the cost of oil uh gas. We were very fortunate. I think we made a very smart move by locking in our gas contracts right at the beginning of this unrest in

the Middle East. And so we we are just talked to our energy manager and um we couldn't have made a better decision with that. We're we're seeing savings of close to probably hundreds of hundred thousand dollars, I'd say, because of that decision that was made. Um, so we're not state aid, too. State aid is yes, you know, we know it's been stagnant for the for the last 15 years. Uh, and you know,

this being an election year, we don't know what what how that's going to transpire to continuing to fund state aid at a certain level, cutting back on state aid. So, this is I mean, it's really something that we have to really keep an eye on. Uh, we were lucky enough to have the um supplemental budgets put that were put in. Uh but you know whether that continues and whether we continue to get additional state aid uh

at a at x x percentage.

Yeah, it's a one you know it's one these supplemental budgets are great. We're going to take we'll gladly take any money the state wants to give us but essentially it's onetime funds. So the governor filed a $und00 million supplemental education budget, right?

Which increases to 300,000 approximately for Dartmouth. Um that's a one-time thing, right? So it's great. It's great.

It's great. We're going to help the the Dartmouth public schools can use it for some various things, but we can't rely on that going forward.

It doesn't start next year doesn't start at that level.

It doesn't start that much higher next year. So, you know, that that's the concern from the state. I know they're looking at some of the formulas going forward. Um but it, you know, we're not seeing we don't we don't think that significant um assistance will be coming from the state. So, you know, at a very high level, we are projecting that we can afford about a 3% increase for fiscal 27 um in our overall budget.

You know, that that we're obviously conservative at this point because we're, you know, we're early on in the process. Um but that's that's if we if you know, as Mr. Silva and the select board has asked us to start looking at those figures and the board has asked us, that is the figure that we feel comfortable that we would be able to afford across the budget as a whole. So that that means you know some

departments are smaller, some are larger. Um and that's with so many unknowns. For instance, health care.

Healthcare is one of the primary drivers in our fixed cost budget. We obviously made a change to um Southeastern Mass Health Group. We're still going to see increases right in healthcare. We're hopeful that it's not 15 and 20% like we've seen over the past couple years with Maya, but it it's it's quite real that we may see a 10% increase in healthcare still. Uh we we were able to work with our insurance company,

property and liability to have a a net essentially zero increase this past year. Um we're on the uh property side we're able to uh get that locked in for two years. So we know to some extent I mean values are going to change so that may cause some increases there but our overall premium shouldn't increase too much there which is great. But then you start looking at okay what's going to

happen in 29? We have to prepare for that. Um, and on top of it, we're I mean middle of negotiating for contracts, so we are it's there's a cost there's a cost to that too. So yeah, we we know we we've we've done a great job with building um the collective bargaining stabilization fund which you will see likely at the fall town meeting additional funds being added to that. That was a great, you

know, for the first time we provided some funding to the schools at this town meeting um out of that fund. That's an important fund to build uh and maintain.

We did build a small uh contingency into the operating budget already for our bargaining agreements because we knew that was coming up. So what we're seeing is um you know we we bargain contracts that we can afford and and that's going to continue.

But you know the the reality is is when you bring in 2 and a half% um plus new growth, you know, 3% for the public's benefit. How many how many uh bargaining units do we have and how many are closed out right now? So on the general government side, we have four. The school has seven. So we have a total of 11 bargaining units. All of the school department uh contracts are

settled going for next year. Uh we are still in active negotiations with all four of our units. We anticipate um being settled with three out of the four that we can bring forward for funding at the uh fall town meeting. We're wrapping up bargaining in the next week or two with uh most of our bargaining units.

Just going back to the audit that we had uh just come out of FY25. Uh if you listen to um Kyle who's our uh the auditor that does the audit here for town. Uh he mentioned that uh you know I you know it's can it's really it's critically important that we continue to fund like the stabilization we continue to fund these accounts that when we the day that we go to borrow for $200

million school that we get the best interest rate that we can on that. And if you look at these other communities that are like the double A's and the single A's, they're paying a premium to to to buy into that debt. So with the bond market now kind of a little shaky, we're looking at I'm looking at this really closely because even those AAA communities may at some time now reach

4%. Which is a the difference between 1% and 4% is millions of dollars on a $200 million borrowing. So, we're we're lucky that we're able to put away those monies and set aside those funds to continue to grow those balances, but it's critically important that we that we keep that in the back of our mind that eventually someday we're going to have to borrow for some from these big projects. Um,

and I think that he brought that to light.

Yeah, that's a really good point, right?

We we've we have a very healthy stabilization fund and so we got questions last year, why are we adding more money to our stabilization fund?

Because we want to show the rating agencies that we are able to can make contributions still. We recently had a meeting with our financial adviser because we're starting to talk about these borrowings and um basically what she said is is continue making contributions, right? Because that's what the rating agencies want to see and it's a big difference. We ran a couple of uh highle scenarios. You know, we're

we're AAA community. We are the only town in Bristol County that is a AAA community which is really good. Um, and what that means is right now maybe three to three and a half percent uh if we go out to borrow. If we were even a double A, you're looking at high fours, low fives. It on a hund00 million project that literally does translate to over $10 million in savings. So, it's worth

making the $250,000 investment now to continue building our stabilization when you're talking, you know, these things are coming down the pipeline. We are going to have to borrow for schools, for infrastructure projects. Um, so it it makes sense and and so you'll see that in the warrant this fall as well.

Does the same rate apply to uh to the schools?

Yes. Yeah. It's a general fund borrowing. It's a general fund borrowing.

Yeah.

Okay.

What is our what is our current balance of our stabilization fund?

Cody about 14.1 million.

And what I know it's a certain percentage.

Usually it's 10% of the uh the financial policies is 10% of the budget. So you know are we a little bit high? We're around the We're around the mark that we should be. Um about five six six years ago, we were contributing about 5 to 600,000. We ratcheted that down to 250,000 per um per town meeting. So um I think in my opin my opinion, we're we should be at at the at this point in

time. You know, as that budget grows, we continue to fund that to make sure that we're we're making the rating agencies happy.

And what about our OPED liabilities?

Um right now I think the last actuarial said that we're about 70 million uh 67 million and um per the audit that we had we we are we are funding over what comparable comm so they compare us to other communities. Sure.

So we're funding over that benchmark that we need to be at. Um and additionally we put about $700,000 uh each year into that. I mean $70 million.

I'll never be around to see to see 70 million.

But that doesffect it's a liability that affects our bond rating. Correct.

Absolutely. Yeah. So when the rating agency when we went on a rating call they want to make sure that all these buckets that we're talking about get funded and the minute that you don't do that they know and they they assume that well the town doesn't have the flexibility to do that anymore.

Trouble on the horizon.

A question. Uh how are we doing on new growth?

Uh well I mean yeah it's a good question. So we um if you look at our new growth, it's interestingly enough been in the you know 800,000 range for the 600.

Yeah. Six 6 to 800,000 range for the past several years. Um we are going through a full reval reval. This is a reval year through the department of revenue. It's required every seven years. So every property has to be looked at. I'm excited. I don't know if other people are excited, but I'm excited that for the first time, we're actually having someone else look at this because we've always done it

in-house. In the last 40 years, we've had two people, right? We had an assessor and we had another assessor who who did it in-house.

Not saying that they did anything wrong, but sometimes it's good to have a second set of eyes on things. So, uh we we issued a procurement. We got a respon a respondent who uh was recommended actually by the Department of Revenue.

This is what they do. And so, uh we're working on that contract now. So, um, and I'm optimistic that we're actually going to capture a little bit more new growth this year for that reason. You know, it's a reval year. There's things that are missed. You know, you're not going to be perfect. So, but I don't have a I can't say like, hey, I anticipate we're going to bring in $1.2

million in new growth this year. It's not a number um that can say, but we'll we'll have a better idea. They will be done by Jan February.

Uh, February.

I think February.

And we had also talked about economic development. I realize that's a gigantic subject, but uh have we moved forward on any level?

No. Yeah, we need the staffing in order to do that. So, we're getting an assistant town administrator on board soon and hopefully we can start to make some progress there.

Oh, that's good.

Yeah.

Terry, you got anything for us?

No, nothing. I wasn't going to interrupt today.

No, there's no interruption. I want you.

Very pleasant.

Okay, Chris, I got one. I got one more thing. Going back to the CLAG gov transparency site there obviously when you drill down it's a very limited amount of educational data from the school department. I know Cody I think you said you know have us look it over how much information from the schools because I love this. I I think that for transparency purposes this is great and I know you know we've

obviously been some concerns about you know having the availability of data for the general public to be able to go to and look at. Um, and I know there's some comparisons in here, um, to the state averages for if you're looking at, um, you know, household income, household demographics, median home values, that's obviously get pulling in from the state somewhere. So, I'm just wondering how it

would it be a separate module that you would have to purchase for the schools or how could we use our data and take some of the desi data and the population data and compare in comps to put it here. So, it's it's literally one-stop shopping for for the town.

Yeah. So, the financial data, we could certainly work with um Jim and his team.

We there's just a um a template essentially that we have to upload the financial data in. So, I'm sure if Gary got that to Jim, we could we could do that because we only can pull we don't have the full detail like like the school department has. We have only a certain level of detail on the financials. But, if if we got that, it's simply an upload. So, Gary can get that to Jim.

Maybe we can work on that.

Yeah, we can work on that. they want they need a specific format. It's just yeah but it's and once you do the it's something that you can easily pull you can create the form in unice like so anyways as far as the um demographic data is this is the one if I have to give a negative of clear go this is the one negative because we aren't able to give a source for that

I wanted to source the department of revenue for instance or for in you guys's case the desi would be great they only utilize the American whatever it is American community survey Okay.

And that's the only data that they pull directly from. They did mention during our onboarding that um it's something they're going to look into to see if we can start eventually link to different data sources. So this is the only thing for demographics that we can pull from comparables. But it is something we because we even said well we would like to show the comparables we've identified

right because there's 300 you know a number of communities in Bristol County throughout the state uh throughout the region but they're not comparable to Dartmouth for instance right and so a good example of that is the uh median population right mentioned being significantly higher well yeah of course because you how many communities do you have in the Birkshars in western Massachusetts that have hundreds of

people in it right so it's not the best comparison they're aware of it. They're working at it. Um, yeah, we really we we pushed this a lot during the on board.

Yeah, we talked about it. I think, you know, maybe in the clear go defense, they're looking at maybe economies of scale, they use this national, you know, database where they'd have to go into every single community they do business with across the country and stop pulling information, but we they know that but they are out of Massachusetts. They are a company that's out of um I think

it's Whand or somewhere in the Metro West area. So, um they're cognizant there. A lot of their clients initially were from Massachusetts municipality.

So, and they've been good. So, I do think eventually they'll have a way to tie it in, just not right now.

Yeah. I mean, there's things we can tweak.

Sure. No, I was just thinking it would just it's a nice platform just to integrate everything, you know, so people we can point people into one website or, you know, where they can find all this information around the schools. No, it's um yeah, that's the only real negative because even if you go to the homepage, it has median home value uh like 400 and something thousand.

But when you hear us talk about median home value, that's not our median home value per the department of revenue.

It's much higher than that.

So like if we ever get to the point of a debt exclusion or an override, we're going to use the department of revenues median home value to show this is what the average, you know, um resident would pay. So there may be some right conflict cuz someone may come here and say, "Well, wait a minute. just says the median home value is 450,000 cuz it's from a different data source.

Um the only other option with this cuz we even said well can we manually go in exactly?

No, but your option is either this or you turn the feature off completely and then you have no demographic data. So we made the decision let's let's do this for now. Maybe they can work on other sources or the ability to to edit it. Um and we even said hey we we would have no problem putting a disclaimer.

you know, this this was edited by the town of Dartmouth because they don't they want it to be data that people can rely on, right?

But right now there's no function. Okay.

So, thank you.

But good feedback and we're we're certainly aware of it.

All right. So, that goes back to communication and collaboration serve as a forum for open dialogue among key stakeholders involved municipal and school budget processes. So, I can check that off with today.

I'm sorry. You're going by our charter.

Is that what you're That was one of the charter.

Didn't see that checklist. I'm sorry.

Yeah. Yeah. Um, so, um, getting back, well, f first off, what what I'll do is I'd like to talk to, um, these gentlemen about, uh, the DPW efficiency study, find out where it is, what it includes right now, what it doesn't include, uh, review some of the board information, uh, that they've gone through when it comes to that study, bring something back to all of you, and, uh, maybe figure out whether we can, um, become

part of that process with them, uh, or um oversee that process or at least at a minimum get it going because I don't I I haven't seen much coming out of it. So um that'll be something I'll be working on the outside. Um the the the time frame for the meetings um we had originally um during budget development season December through April would be a minimum of monthly or at least yeah at

least monthly. Um, so we're we're not there yet, but um, and I I want to uh defer to uh to Chris in the time that he needs to go uh through the RFP and come up with some questions and and uh and additions or deletions that that he feels uh or the board feels is important. Um, so Heidi, you're you're my scheduling guru. Um we were meeting every three weeks

before when we were well we were doing you know every other meeting every other but then it seems like there'd be a conflict or there'd be a cancellation um and I think three weeks at this time would be that brings us up to um the end of September which is September 30th if we're still Wednesday. Um I don't know if that gives so so the problem that I have on the Wednesday nights going forward I was

able to push the class that I had to they couldn't field enough for the class so they pushed me to the last week of September to start that on Wednesday nights at 600 that's why I had mentioned to everybody that I'd only be able to stay a half hour um so they they came we were on Tuesdays we had done some in the morning then we decided to try some at night and I will

say midocctober I start teaching 4 to 6 every Wednesday. So that would be problematic.

Okay.

So we can look at Tuesdays. I don't know.

I don't remember what we would happen.

There's always someone meeting. So I think whatever works for you guys.

So um that would be September 29th if we think that 3 weeks is enough for the school department to have their budget.

So we subcommittee.

So we could do a budget subcommittee next week. We have school committee on the four Monday the 14th and then we have school committee I believe on the 28th Jim or no we have school committee on um October 5th.

All right. Not the 28th.

Not the 28th. So 14th and then October 5th.

So it would have to be after the we would have we wouldn't be able to meet with the full committee until the 5th.

Oh okay. So we should meet after that.

Well, I guess the question is, do we need to Good point.

We want to just look at the questions and decide what we like and bring it back here, see how everybody else likes it, and then take it to the full school committee. So, we could meet beforehand.

Um, so yeah, I think one of the other things and it's it's going to be somewhat premature, but you know, we need to start talking about um the school roof project and the impacts financially of that. We don't have numbers yet, but we do need we know it's going to be a borrowing. We know it's going to be a debt exclusion. We also need to start talking about are there other projects

that we wrap into that, right? So, there's going to be a borrowing. There's no doubt about that. Um there's some discussion high level that some HVAC equipment may may make sense to replace that at the time that may add um a sizable amount to the project. And then at one point we had talked about do we do kind of this omnibus type borrowing of these I'm going to call them um small large

projects. I'm not talking $100,000 projects. I'm talking kind of that 800,000 plus projects. So the high school track we talked about. Is there an appetite to finish the stadium? Um those are the types of things it makes sense to do one borrowing because well we get a better rate the as we borrow a little bit more. There's kind of a sweet spot. Um and also you know it's good not

to pay all the fees right if you're going out to borrow there's a lot of fees and so every time we go to the market it's yeah costs a lot of money.

So like that's a good thing for this group to start talking about too and then get it to the respective groups the finance committee the school committee the select board. So when we do say this is the route to go, there's already buy in or or there isn't buy in and there's a decision with representation from each of those groups. I I think at least in my head that's how I envision this group

working. So we're not having to have these large meetings. It's great to get together and have you know meetings with the finance committee, select board and school committee. It's a lot of people and and when you get a lot of people together sometimes you don't get things done right. It can be challenging. look at, you know, planning with the end in mind. So, knowing that we're going to have to at

some point make a decision when we get information back from MSBA on the roof, when would we be would debt exclusion need to go to the town voters, town uh town meeting both?

Yeah.

Yes. Meeting the town.

Yeah. So then we go all the way to Well, it's not on this town meeting, right?

So it's on June.

It would probably be going to the voters first.

Voters first before town meeting.

Correct.

Really?

Yeah.

Because the way that our uh election works, which you know, the way that our town meeting and election work, every community is different, but our election is, you know, a couple months before town meeting. So you it really just doesn't work for us because in order to do it you would either have to do a fall town meeting and you're waiting 6 months to bring it to the voters or you do a

June town meeting and you're waiting 10 months to get to the voters. So essentially what you do is you do a debt exclusion first which basically gives us authorization to tax beyond a certain amount and then it goes to town meeting for the authorization to borrow. Town meeting doesn't approve a debt exclusion. Tom just approves the authorization to borrow the money. So, uh, the opposite. So, that's why I was thinking

now it doesn't matter. I mean, it doesn't matter which which route you go, but in this case, we would that's that's what you would have to do or you have a special election. I just don't special.

We don't I don't think we want to do a special election.

Right. Yeah.

Jine, can I just clarify? You anticipate this going to a townwide election first?

Yes. I only question that because of education of the voters.

Yep.

Because it's so easy to say no if they don't have the information.

Yeah. A lot of education. Uh we'll have to start, you know, we'll start very shortly once we have some information from MSBA and there's some decisions made. The the MSBA has a very tight schedule that we have to follow essentially.

And my second concern would be if you put too many items together because people will be like, I like this one, I don't like that one. Yeah. So I don't like any of them.

So for instance, the roof will have to be its own item.

Okay, good.

By itself, right? So that that's a requirement MSBA.

Um a certain dollar amount or is it it's just MSBA project has to be approved separately.

So you know there's which it is what it is. The concern for instance is if we were to go the HVAC route, which we likely will, we will need to take care of the HVAC. Um if if the roof passes, which we hope it, you know, hope it does, and the HVAC were not to pass, it creates significant challenges for us. That's the educa the education we'll have to get out um on

things like that cuz they're essentially having to rip up part of the roof, right, for the HVAC.

It makes in our Hback, it makes sense. It's going to cost us a lot more down the road. Um potentially warranty issues, so on and so forth. So, we're looking at that. But yeah, I mean the MSBA February will have a decision.

Yes.

Yeah. So it's a tight It's going to be very tight.

It's going to be very tight piece though because everything else about the roof has been discussed.

It's just the Hback that has different town meeting.

Yeah. Yeah. It's just the way that our our local schedule works that No, I understand that. I was just more concerned that the knowledge really gets out to the general public because that's tricky.

Yeah, we're in a better position with Jessica on board now than I think so. Uh, it's still a challenge. It's still a challenge. It's still a challenge.

But remember, there's a large portion of voters who are not all over social media.

Yeah.

Yeah. We try to work with the Dartmouth Week, too. I mean, a lot of people read the Dartmouth Week. We try to get the information out in there, too. Um, we try to talk about it at all of these meetings. We've done a lot. So, but we're always open to feedback, too.

So, where were we, Heidi? I don't remember.

We were on Tuesdays.

Tuesdays.

We were on Tuesdays. So, I will I will look because I think that's really important to look at. Um I'll go into 2027 and look at April and when that election is and think back because that's going to give us a little bit different work. So, I think I would like to be able to say let's do that September 29th because if the subcommittee can meet, you can bring us up to speed still.

Yes. you know um and then maybe you will have something to present on October 5th and we'll have something to present also on October 5th at select board that just says this this is a you know status report um we have a town meeting on the 20th select board has another meeting on the 26th I don't I mean, we could meet 29th at 5 still. Is five the time?

I think I think that's probably our best bet because we can't meet the night of town meeting and the 13th is not going to give us I know.

We could just go right there.

I'm sorry. So, are you switching from No, we're not switching to We're Tuesday. It's still Tuesday, the 27th of October.

Okay.

Tuesday the 29th of September.

Okay. Good.

Yes.

Good. If you date, we're going to have a problem in Wednesday, Chris and I.

Then, um, do we want to continue at 5:00?

I know we had been we had done a few at 8. Do we think we're better off at five?

Well, Chris, you were concerned that we open for the public.

I think as we get closer and we have some issues that we're actually working through, we might we might get more uh we might have more people that want to give us some input.

I mean, we could rotate the time, but I mean, I agree with you that you want to have it be the public, you know, has access.

Yeah.

So, no, Tuesday, November 17th.

As long as Gary can attend, I can't attend that one.

Okay. No, Cody.

I'm sorry. You said September 29th and that was at Tuesday, September 29th at five.

At five. Tuesday, October 27th, 5.

Mhm.

Tuesday, November 17th, 5.

And then let's go. One, let's keep it early in December.

December 8th, five o'clock Tuesday. I think once we go any closer to the holiday, um, we're going to get into concert season and so December 8th, it's nice to have four meetings that we know about in advance.

Yeah. And then I'll I'll um get the dates from Sarah for April 8th when the election is June when town meeting is and and work 2027 dates.

Okay.

Anything else?

I have a comment. I don't and I say this because I know Chris that you like to have the public understand, you know, be able to come whatever. I'm not aware that we have a web page, I'll say, same as every other committee. One that lists what our charter is and the associated documents, one that links to our meeting minutes, one that links to whatever so people understand that this exists

because I think a lot of people don't understand that this exists. Um, and that way they can hear, see, pay more attention because think of all the things we talked about tonight. Mhm.

I think people need to pay attention and it's just another thing that they can look at if they choose, but it just promotes it a little bit in a subtle way, but at least they know there's a committee and if they do a search, there it is. This is what it does and this is why.

Mhm.

Not to give somebody work. That's my suggestion.

Yeah, we can definitely work on that.

I I agree, Jim. We'll uh we'll put try and get something together because it's you and we get closer to some serious decisions, we'll uh we have some serious discussions.

We we'll need a place to point people to and uh and and keep it open.

Yeah. All right.

I just add if anyone has agenda items that they want to see discussed, if you send Gary an email um like a week before, well, we're we're not we're open to discuss anything. So, just I think it's a pretty good to know. Chris has been well Chris has been good about you know whatever the committee wants to discuss. So if you have anything um yes we can prepare just send Gary there

and he'll put it on the agenda before he posts it. So Gary doesn't have enough to do especially right now.

All right. Uh no minutes.

No minutes.

We had minutes sent out a month ago but we have minutes.

Was it a trash day?

What day it is back in May? Yes, we have the main minutes he sent.

So, I'd only had one comment about the minutes.

Who's here? We carve out YouTube, but we don't carve out Jim as being here forformational purposes. He's just as the rest of us and he should be with you guys.

I don't know. Is that Is that a good thing or a bad thing, Jim?

Everybody wants to know if Jim was here.

Oh.

No, I know. I agree.

No, it's of course.

But otherwise, I I would move to um May 19th. May 19th.

I would move to accept the minutes of May 19th, 2026.

Motion made.

Is there a second?

Seconded. All in favor?

I opposed.

Okay. Um motion to adjurnn.

Motion second. made and seconded. All in favor?

I message you.