Finance Committee Meeting - February 19, 2026

Uh so Gary, we're going to make some changes to the agenda.

Yes. So uh just Madam Chair, as we have uh a couple items here and u maybe a few a couple members that have to leave a little bit early tonight, um I would suggest that we take uh the reserve fund transfer for the Donic Public Schools out of order and the minutes just so that there's enough members available for to votes on those um items.

Excellent. So um on the first one uh the reserve fund transfer uh you might have heard uh that um when Mr. Kylie had come to the uh CIPC meeting uh a couple of weeks ago he had mentioned uh the um generator having issues right uh and this was service on the generator. Now keep in mind this also is for the um uh lights in the building. It is for uh this is at the middle school.

This is for lights in the building. This is for um you know per perishables in the um in the refrigeration for the cafeteria.

Emergency shelter, Gary.

Is it an emergency shelter that people will go to in the No, it is.

No. No. Okay.

No. So um what what that means is uh you know it's down. It was down. So they've done the repairs and this was unexpected. So uh this would be a transfer from the finance committee's reserve fund as it was unforeseen. Uh um and again this is a repair to their diesel generator. So, you have the information. I sent the um the packet to you. I sent motion to approve. I heard the presentation.

I'll second discussion.

Anything else we need to know about that before we vote? Questions? Anyone?

Um there was just one thing I had seen on the um when you sent over the invoice um it said um billing address middle school, service address, high school, I think, or maybe it was flip-flopped. Um where where's the actual um service location?

The generator is located.

Quinn.

Quinn. Okay.

Yeah, I sent the photos. Um you might have seen the the crane.

Okay.

Uh I believe it was a crane out there.

Okay. I just thought I think on their on their statement it might have been changed that it was I didn't realize how big it was until I looked at the photo. You know, I think generator. I think of the one I have.

Yeah. The full stop.

Yeah. No, this is a this is a huge diesel generator. I mean, think about how big the building is to No. Understood.

How do we know how old it is?

Uh, probably I would say probably Jim said it. I can't recall.

15 that old.

It's old. It It's got older than anybody remembers.

20 plus years old, you know. And it doesn't do the whole building.

Just the emergency.

Yeah.

Some lights, some plugs, and like the refrigeration.

So, did they consider a new one?

Yeah, that this was this was it wasn't part of the capital plan. I'd say it was more uh they we were talking about items for the schools. It came up in conversation that the generator was down. Um whether or not they're considering a brand new one, I think that this repair will will hold them off until we you know the decision was made to purchase a new one if they have to

too. I mean, we can't do anything about it, you know, but I hope they looked at, you know, hey, are we putting you know, money into this and this generator is at the end of its life and why are we doing that?

I think Jim didn't mention at Jim did mention at the meeting that a generator that size will probably be north of half a million dollars.

Yeah.

And probably a 40 40we lead time. they would need to make those repairs on a more immediate basis and plan for eventually replacing it. Unless, of course, we build a new middle school.

Maybe it gets you to [snorts] fill the gap.

Let's stick with $37,000.

Yeah, I think we can all agree on that right now.

Yeah.

Are we ready to vote on this?

Yes.

All in favor?

I I Okay, thank you. Uh the next item I would suggest is that we take the minutes uh for the um meeting that was uh I sent those over to the to the group.

Does somebody want to make a motion?

I'll make a motion to approve.

I will second it.

Any excuse me discussion on the minutes?

Uh what is that? February 5th.

February 5th or the 13th? What are we voting on? Oh, it's the 12th. The meeting was last Thursday.

No, no, but the minutes that Gary sent, right? Aren't those That's the February 5th.

Okay.

Okay.

Is that That's correct. Right. That's what my Yeah.

Is that the fifth? Yeah.

No, that's the agenda. Oh, is that those minutes?

Oh, those are the minutes.

Any questions or concerns?

Good.

We're ready to vote.

All in favor?

I I [clears throat] I did notice that the style is abbreviated and I wonder if somebody talked to Elizabeth about doing more bullets or um writing more briefly. She used to write pages and pages.

Well, we don't have Elizabeth is no longer doing our minutes. It's Oh, that's why that's why it's different. Okay.

We um we had requested um obviously it was a new a new person that was doing the minutes, so we had requested a little bit more um detail on the minutes. So, she's gone back and going forward she'll be providing that to the group. Okay. More detail in the minutes.

It does seem like it already changed a little bit from the first minutes were pretty condensed. I know we're very spoiled from our other minutes with they were books. I could go back and relive the meeting.

Um okay. Let's go back to our agenda. I think we're done with those.

Tim, are you ready for us?

I guess I am. Can you introduce yourself for the cameras in our big listening audience?

Good evening. Tim Barbara, director of public works.

[clears throat]

[clears throat]

This is our current organizational chart for the Department of Public Works, including the board of public works, director of public works, assistant director of public works, uh, administration and engineering, services and infrastructure, water pollution control and water and sew division would be lower if you scroll down [snorts] or not.

We make that screen bigger. Uh uh sure. Let me just a little bit. Right side icon.

[clears throat] That might be helpful.

That better?

Thank you.

This screen's tough with a large budget.

Say it's tough with anybody's budget.

So, we go through the administration. Uh the salaries uh were in they were increased without a cola uh cost of living increase at $552,48.96, which is a 3.1% increase.

So that includes professional salaries and clerical on engineering. Uh we actually had a a reduction in salaries from I'm sorry the administration expenses were level funded in the administration budget.

uh under engineering the salaries there was a reduction in $44,243 which was a ne an 8% reduction and that is due to uh basically we we had a couple vacancies in engineering um from long tenur employees which were at top step.

So we hired a number of we hired three new engineers uh two of them at at a lower step at at step one. So that just that alone uh was about 30,000 uh less and then excuse me what's the uh staffing level of engine how many engineers you have?

We have four engineers and a senior engineer.

Senior engineer and the senior engineer act as a lead to the other four engineers.

Yes.

Tim, I have a question. I know that Patrick had submitted questions ahead of time that are sort of interspersed amongst this.

Are you going to try to address those as we hit them in the Yes. as I can. That was one of them.

Okay. I thought so.

Okay. Good. Thank you.

Um in in highway I'm sorry expenses uh again for expenses we level funded expenses throughout engineering.

[clears throat] In highway, we increased our salary budget to 1,237 $237,14456, which is a 6.5% increase.

And our expenses were increased to 697,700, which is a 10.6% increase. Our snow and ice salaries are are only overtime uh salaries and we increased that to $100,000 from 51,975.

So that was a 92.4% increase. And that that was due to the last few years we've overspent that budget. Um I think I think in 2024 we over spent by uh about 30,000 and last year we spent about by by 50,000 and this year we'll be well above that as we have another storm uh pending for this this coming weekend. Uh we we're continuing to treat uh this week.

We we treated last night. will be treating again tonight as we have wet roads and and fluctuating temperatures just above freezing to to below freezing. So So they I know this this budget typically gets over spent, but we're just trying to balance that a little better. Um so we have an idea of what we're getting into on the expense size. We we level funded the expense side.

Um, and we'll see what we'll see what we expended. We just we just bought um I think 1,100 ton of salt. Uh, and we just got delivered 800 ton. We were we were almost out of salt and we were mixing with sand. Um, so we just we just started getting in deliveries uh the last couple days. So they delivered between 8 and 8 and 900 ton in the last couple days.

So we're pretty pretty stocked up right now. Janine on there. Yes.

So, um, on the salaries you're putting in for a big increase. You're level funding the expenses.

Are you is that prudent? If you're thinking you're trying to prevent these large fluctuations you have in it, uh, well, your expenses go up. If you're paying a lot of overtime, well, they're throwing a lot of salt on the ground.

So, that expense is going to go through the roof, too. So wouldn't it be prudent to raise if you're really trying to solve that problem on this large swings um to ask for an increase on the expense side? I'm just throwing that out there.

What does the trending look like uh Jim for the last few years?

So in in 2024 um we we did overspend by about 30,000 in expenses.

In 2025 we overspent by about a thousand just under a thousand.

and and we we did increase the budget last year for that.

And I'm just asking, you're confident that that the expense side isn't going to if you're running more if you're if you're running more hours on a truck, I would think your expenses are going to go up, too.

Just a little bit of clarification. Um the committee may or may not know this, but uh Snow and Ice is one of the one of the only accounts that can be overdrawn.

It just gets raised on the recap once that gets figured out through the tax um certification. So if in fact Tim does overspend on this account and I think that he's probably try to get it as close as he can, uh that is one that can be uh overspent, it's allowed to be overspent under Mass General law.

So, as of as of last week, we we were at 63% expenditures on on for the year for the for the purchasing of salt.

So, we'll see where that ends up, you know, at the end of the year. And I like I said, like Gary said, it's it's it's it's a it's a big fluctuation every year.

So, it's hard to big unknown.

Not to go too high, but but but our our trend on overtime has been increasing every year. So, we can we can definitely use that addition. And thought when we hired a new director, he'd have more control of the weather, but I guess I was mistaken.

No, I did put a call to mother nature.

Nice.

But our, you know, we've pretty much level funded our overtime throughout the years, too. So, you know, trying to meet up with what we've been expending as well. So, quick question. So, we got we got this presentation in an email and then we also got like the munus reports in an email.

There's somewhat different. Which one which one is the one that we'll be voting on in is it the mun report's a little bit higher.

the munice report for for this particular line item the highway uh it's showing a total 2027 department request of 1,931,930 I think when you add these two up it's slightly different the the salaries on the munice report is 1,182,230 and the expenses are 749,700 so I think the salary Salaries are a little uh lower, but the expenses are a little higher on Munis, but I think they're when you net them together when

you add them together, it's about $45,000 difference.

Have there been any structural changes in terms of staff or [clears throat] there have there have.

I mean, we've had especially in highway, but we're we're pretty much fully staffed for drivers, but those are positions that were already in the budget. Yes.

Is there anything being added this year?

Yeah, the business manager.

Okay.

And not in highway, but it actually it's not in highway. It's in it's in admin, general fund, solid waste, water, and sewer.

And does that explain some of the increases or in in the other budgets? Yeah.

Okay.

In some of the other budgets, you'll only see a $25,000 increase in each in each of the four that Tim just mentioned, though. That's so anything beyond that is is not because of the business manager, right?

And that was the question that I had asked because I could see that popping up in four different locations. Four or five different locations.

Yes. Yeah.

Split across the across the enterprise funds. And are you [clears throat] going is that going to be presented in some manner to town meeting as a position?

Well, no. Town meeting doesn't approve.

It's more like understanding because right now when you look at those line items, it almost looks a little sneaky.

I have no other word because you got person 25,000. Oh, another one 25,000.

Oh, another one 25,000. And if you first glance when I first looked at it, I went there's no way they're getting a business manager for $25,000.

I mean, sure, if there's recommendations on how to present that.

Oh, it's a new position. And I think it's important for people to know.

Well, that's I mean that's what we're doing here.

This is just Excel spreadsheet stuff versus saying here's a new position and this is what it'll do, right?

The per the purpose of this is to prevent what we've been seeing in Oh, absolutely. I don't disagree, but I um it's just making it clear to people. But saying it's sneaky is not Oh, to me, when I first But that's how we have to fund it. We have to fund it that way.

I understand. I'm just saying when I first looked at it, all I had were spreadsheets and as you go through them, that's all I could see was a line item thrown in here and there for $25,000. And that wasn't a clear explanation. That's mentioned at the last meeting and Tim's presenting tonight on that. So, I I just I get what you're saying, but to say it was sneaky, I that's maybe it's not the best word,

but it doesn't look like it's clearly stating there's a brand new position that's being funded for. It must be at least $100,000. I didn't do the math.

So, what is it? Just split up between uh Yes, I know.

That's what it is. All they're doing is splitting up.

I get that. It's just not clear that it's a brand new position and there's no explanation so far that I didn't see of what the responsibilities are. I mean that that could be part of our our rationale. You can Well, I also not disagreeing with the position.

I also think there could be a cover sheet that says um changes in personnel.

Yeah, it may look like that we're paying the person 25,000. know money for that position's coming from other parts of the budget and that should be enough to explain to people because it it's something typical that you'll see in the DPW budget is the splitting of of salaries throughout you know where some are some are funded through general fund and and then since we have three enterprise funds they'll be split

throughout the enterprise funds if they work I get why it was done financially it's because people do like to know that a new position was added to the town.

Absolutely.

That's that's all I'm asking for is that I think people want to know it's a brand new position and you know what's the benefit of it?

That type of thing.

[clears throat] So we've got the detail up there for um the accounts we'll go off the mutus reports which is a little bit kind of what we're doing standardized on the other other department. So um we want want highway temp and these the committee has these.

Yeah.

Yeah. [snorts]

What's the overall increase in the budget Tim?

11.7%.

Okay.

And if you think back on this year, what do you think is um an achievement that very h happy with that you feel like um you could share that with people and say, you know, this is some of the work that the DPW is doing.

I'd say one of the one of the big projects is the 579 Westport Road facility. Uh where it's it's it's it's about I'd say 90 to 95% complete. Um getting that contact pipe and a backwash and just for you know water quality, sustainability and and you know resilience.

Yeah.

You know I think it'll be it's it'll be great and and we're hoping to have that online. So, I don't know if you remember, I think it was last year or the year before, Buddy did a piece on his um department and explained kind of what had been done over the years and uh what was being proposed now. And I think one of the points that Janine's making is when we give these spreadsheets to

town meeting, you know, 6.9 17, it doesn't really mean a lot. So, I think it really does need some translation into like a cover sheet that says some well narrative, but then yeah, I mean, it doesn't have to be big, but something that would explain to a kindergartener what's going on, you know, not um it's just a lot to absorb.

Yeah. Like we, you know, we paved and surfaced about nine miles of road this year. spent spent 4 million and and uh and all that, you know, split between Eversource cost sharing uh 743,000 out of road maintenance articles and um and the rest out of chapter 90 and and fair share funding.

And see, that's information that the town meeting does want to know. They ask those questions, but it's done kind of peace meal. There's something on the top that explains where the tax money's gone, why they should be happy about it. I think that would make a big difference.

No, that makes a lot of sense, Tara, because we do have so many roads in town and there's a lot of work we know that your department does. Absolutely. So, it's nice to you you have to not that you have to justify it to us per se, but how meeting wants to know.

Yeah, exactly. You know, speaking of roads, I know last year, um, one of the the main things was the cost of asphalt had gone kind of through the roof. Are we still trending up as far as that goes? And also, um, with the increased snow and ice this year, is that going to kind of, I don't know how to really put it, but screw up the roads that we just did. Um,

are we going to see like more repair costs over the next few years because of the ice and snow we've had this current year?

Yes. So, we we have a contract that that's usually negotiated in for a three-year term uh with our asphalt companies. So, so that they they're allowed to increase at a max of 25% throughout the life of the contract.

Okay.

So, we won't see any high increases until that end of that third year until it renegotiates.

That's what happened last year when we we ended the previous three-year contract. It it increased by 60%.

Okay.

Yeah. Okay.

So, I do expect to see some increases, but I think it's plateaued more than the increases that we saw previously.

Okay. Thank you.

As far as the, you know, the snow and ice, it's it's the extreme freezing temperatures, you know, that have actually there are some some heaves in in some of some of the roads. You'll see some frost heaving. And we've also had a a number of water mane breaks due to that freeze and thaw and the movement of the soils.

Yep. So we we had one today. We had another one earlier this week. We you know we've been going so our guys have been going out repairing water manes in between treating roads and you know and plowing. It's been tough. So So we'll definitely see some thanks some additional repairs and and some some more costs and it just kind of snowballs.

Yeah. Just based on the saw, you know.

Sure. Thank you. you know, you'll see more more potholes pop up because as it as it expands when it freezes and contracts when it when it thaws out and that that asphalt can't handle that.

Sure.

Thank you.

So, you're welcome.

Quick question. With an 11% overall increase with the addition of one FTE for so the rest of that is all expense and step increases and is That's and that's not including the um collective bargaining capital.

Correct.

Any cost of living adjustment or anything um from the common class that's just current step increases. The I mean you'll see a lot of it is expense related. One of the things if you've looked at the um not just the highway but all of their budgets is when we start when the three of us started looking at the trends we've been overspending year over year and we haven't made adjustments in probably

five years to really what we should be.

So we really are putting together what what what's actually needed what we're actually spending this year I think which is different than has been done in the past few years. How are those overrides? I mean those overruns uh reconciled line item transfers.

Um well if it's if it's outside of the line yes then it has to go through line item transfer. A lot of it has been you know so so Tom meeting approves the DPW expense, right? They'll approve the individual the sublines. So anything on that one line you can shuffle internally with internally without that line item transfer. So, there's been some of that.

Um, but yeah, there's been some line item transfers as well.

Even on the line items like repair and maintenance. If you look at I mean, let's look at oil changes, what they cost, you know, two, three years ago.

Look at like brake pads, what they cost two, three years ago. That that's almost doubled in in in in the in the budgets now. You know, just the repair and maintenance on vehicles. Um, and then the snow and ice is you don't you don't necessarily see because it just gets raised at the rec on the recap when we file with do.

And was that and what I'm just trying to wrap my head around is so we're talking about an 11% increase this year to adjust for consistent overruns in past years which were reconciled by line item transfers, not additional appropriations to the department. reserve fund transfer one year.

Yeah. Well, in some cases it could be line I don't have the line item transfer history history in front of me, but LM transfer could be from another department. So, we could transfer within the bud within So, you could take it from town hall and put it you know any anything within the budget that requires that the finance committee and the select board. Um but but it's I mean you saw the significant increase in

the snow and ice. I mean, it's a 90% increase. Um that's that's a big part of it right there and that has been raised on the recap.

Got it.

Yeah. This is chewing up all you know prior years as Cody mentioned prior years of expenses that weren't I mean we can continue to budget $50,000 let's say for a line item for for electric but in real in reality if if in fact the the trend is 70,000 at some point in time we've got to we've got to make that account be more realistic to what is actually being spent. But you know, Gary, that's

indicative of most towns now anyway that have issues with snow and ice removal.

Oh, yeah.

Everybody's going through that because it's unexpected. A lot of uh and I just love watching the news. A lot of uh you know what's Tim's going through, running out of salt and sand, you know, waiting for deliveries because they ran out of what they had stocked up and now they got to order more. And that is very prevalent throughout the Commonwealth and Rhode Island as well.

And then that 11% is also inclusive of the enterprise funds or just DPW. So everything entire budget DPW water enterprise funds sewer enterprise fund solid waste fund. So if you look in the in the past budgets, we've we've chased these increases as as we see vehicle maintenance increases. We well we you know we increase a certain percentage to [clears throat] to bring that up if we haven't gone and

and increased those line items over that expendure expenditure amount to to to have additional cushion. Um but that's what we did this time. you know, where, you know, I've always felt that especially in the enterprise funds when you do that, it it it hits the rates harder. So, we try not to, you know, get that, but then in the end, if you overexpend your your bottom line, you know, you're you're doing a transfer.

The uh the 11% also includes a very large increase in the uh water pollution control enterprise fund. So, So, that was a $900,000 increase based on uh currently our our our bioolids from the wastewater treatment facility are our dehydrated and then we have a we have a wood chipper and we all the brush that the the public brings in and sometimes we have to purchase additional wood. We

grind that to a fine uh mulch and then we mix it with the bioolids and we we create a a what's called a gradea compost product that was has been marketed for land application for for many many years and it it it you know it was it was a high sought off product and the the DP is looking to regulate and possibly ban land applications of bioolids And the the vendor that we currently use

to market and and transport and sell our bioolid compost is closing down their facility in Maine and they'll no longer be in the business. Uh so they their estimate to to just truck out and haul our bioolids was over a million per year.

Now as we were we make revenue off that annually. So, we're going from a revenue to $1.2 million.

That's true.

That was going to be my question. It's like we were making money and now we're almost a million in the negative on the same exact thing.

Correct. What happened with like recyclables uh with with metals, you know, at one point we we were hauling things away and getting whatever per ton. Now, it's like an expense to get rid of it because no no one wants [clears throat] it.

Yeah.

You know, it it's it becomes difficult. Ju just to clar I just added it up.

Apologize. I didn't do this in advance, but it looks like the DPW it, you know, minus the enterprise funds, we're talking about $115,000 net increase, which is much less than 11%. So most of the percentage increase is coming from the enterprise funds, probably predominantly that.

Yeah, if you looked at the detail, you'll see a lot of these, again, we've made adjustments, but as much as we could, we've level funded a lot of these a lot of these line items.

want to pick up next on construction.

Tim

Gary, what page are you on?

What page am I on?

33 on the mun page.

Oh, you're on a mun report, not in the mun report that I that I had sent out to the group.

Okay.

They're all in one tab. They go down from the from the top.

So in the construction division the salaries were slightly decreased to $74,68283 with a point 2% decrease which is just due to u you know moving employees around with with different salaries.

Expenses were increased by 1.8% at $600.

Any questions on construction?

I know one of our one of my board members had did question um the construction and the fleet divisions how they're really minimal increases and and recommended requesting you know increases to meet kind of the consumer pricing index where I I guess my explanation is that the fleet in the construction division a lot of their work is billable. So, it's billable to uh whether it's chapter 90

or the road maintenance when they're out doing road work. Um same with the fleet, you know, a lot of the fleet maintenance done, it's a central fleet garage and and any fleet done on different departments is billable to th those departments. So, so the fleet on the fleet side, we had a a slight increase at 1.4% which equals to $5,63456.

U and on the expense side of fleet, we had a three $300 increase at 1%.

Fleet maintenance the next.

Yeah, that was fleet.

Okay. Anybody with questions on the fleet maintenance division and just looking at at fleet maintenance again during snowing ice. You know, every time we have a snowstorm and and the the trucks are going out plowing and spreading salt and sand, you know, a lot of times there's there are a number of trucks that come in with maintenance issues. You know, I was there for the for the big storm and, you know, one

truck came in with a blown turbo, another one came in with, you know, with a a mechanical issue with the spreader, you know. So, that's constantly throughout that storm. They're coming in with maintenance issues. And then, you know, in between storms, they're trying to get these trucks up and running.

And, uh, as Gary would said earlier about maintenance of vehicles, uh, the and the cost the cost for just the brake pads for a solid waste vehicle is about $5,000. Just just to break for a brake upgrade, just the materials is about $5,000.

And how long do those last?

Not not long. with the amount of roads and it stopped constantly on the gas and on the brakes. On the gas and on the brakes, you know, every house, you know.

Does it last a season?

Uh, I don't even know if it lasts a full season.

Oh my god.

So, we'll look at the uh excuse.

[clears throat] Now, we'll look at the enterprise funds.

Start with water. Tim, that's the next one. Okay.

I join

on the water salaries. We had a 1% increase at $11,36.16 that from up to 1,13789 $137,89.16 whereas Gary had it a little higher on the expense side. We had an 11% increase at 3 million 87 854 $55 and the increases in water were primarily we increase the line item purchasing water from the city of Newton. Um, we're hoping not to see that, you know, having to purchase at that rate in this coming year as we get

the penalty wells back on and we're able to provide more water. But what's going on with that, Tim? Is um any conversation with Fall River? Is there any meeting with to negotiate price with New Bedford?

Yes. So, I I did meet with the city of Fall River and they are interested in selling water. Um the currently I I have the plans from Westport as well. Uh they sent me the construction plans. They designed the water main extension just about up to the town line but not under the covert at Lake Nokachoke.

Uh that's estimated at at approximately 5 million.

Okay.

U and I think that was estimated back when they did the the that first extension. So, it's probably increased by at least, you know, three to six percent. Um, and on top of that, you know, you also have to fund the interconnection, whether it's a pump or if you have to add more treatment. So, you need a facility there to do additional uh work.

So, that's an expense. The the cost would probably have to be negotiated.

They do they do charge uh you know a a percentage above for interconnections and then and they they do they do allow a drop rate. So if you have an agreement you you'd come to an agreement on purchasing a certain amount of water every year. Once you hit that amount of water they would drop the tier of your expense. So you you'd pay a little less after you hit that threshold.

Is that how it works with New Bedford?

No. I did I did request that from the city of New Bedford and they're working currently working on updating our interconnection agreement. So they haven't they haven't come to us with that yet with whether or not they they're going to entertain that.

No them they'll give us a step to you hit a certain amount we'll go up.

Nice.

Um, when we reach a certain level with the wells, as Cody pointed out to me last meeting, the wells shut down. So, [clears throat] with that being said, can we really anticipate buying less water from New Bedford and consequently a decrease in expenses?

So, the the level that you're talking about, it's it's a flow within the Pascam River. So there's a gauge on Russell's Mills Road uh that USGS reads and and based on that flow when that drops to a certain level we have to shut down some of our wells.

So the the the wells that we have to shut down are only our our um registered wells that are along the Pasam River in that wershed. So, so wells along other like the penelli wells aren't in that wershed we don't have to shut those wells down right and any any permitted wells we don't as well but the fact that you have to shut some I'm just saying if I don't the way it

sounds we may not be able to decrease you know the purchasing of water from because of that reason.

Yeah. So, so we we will have to still shut those wells down if we have a drop in that flow, but we haven't had the Penelli wells on since 2020.

Okay.

Online.

So, we've been working with without those wells since 2020 and working on the upgrade at the 579 plant. So, once this is back online, which I'm hoping within the next few weeks, we can we can start bringing those online and testing them. Um, and then once they're they're all tested and functioning well, we can we can bring them back online completely.

How many wells do we have in town? To refresh my memory.

15, I think.

15 of them.

Were the Penelli wells the wells that were struck by lightning?

No, that was the that was the 299.

So, the wells are just like a series of unfortunate events. And in 2020, we had we had a a a really intense raintorm. It was about six inch raintorm.

Yep. And because these wells are shallow and some of them they're located in areas where with wetlands and organics, we had a bacteria head.

Oh yes.

So that's so years ago you could you could sanitize those wells, retest the raw water and as long as that came back negative, you could turn those wells back on. But now the water management act and the groundwater rule requires us to either issue a boil water. So, so boil water order or have a what they call a CT which is a contact time pipe system or a for log

to increase the amount of time that the chemical treatment is in contact with the water before it goes out to the street in the public.

So, we didn't have that at the facility.

So, um so that's what we're doing now.

Sure.

So, so once that's back online, if if that ever happened again, we could keep pumping Sure. while we test and and I think like a main thing that's affecting us and the bioolids the waters regulations I mean it's just hammering us it is it's regulations so back when that happened like the mad mapo at Marian Rochester Faven they went on they had the same issue and they had the same

bacterial hit y and they issued a boil order because they didn't have they didn't have a supplemental supply like we do with New Bedford sure so you know we rather than issue a boil order which is kind of you know morale kill and you you know for your for your customers and we would had to keep doing it till today till we had this online so so we you know we bit the bullet and we

spent more money purchasing water from the city of New Bedford but we didn't expect it to peak demand to keep increasing like it has.

Yep. And it and it has in the interim.

While those wells were down, we also just we were the viola wells were down too because they were under construction.

So we were replacing the violeta wells and the penelli wells went down. So we just shut the plant down.

Yep.

And then and then a couple years after that we had the 299 got struck by lightning. Yeah. Um and it and it it blew the transformers. So that was during a large storm where Eversource couldn't even get transformers to lend us. So we had to wait 12 weeks to get transformers and they came and damaged.

Yep.

So So we we got them back and got them shipped, got them installed. Then another storm hit and and blew all the underground electric at the same facility.

So it's it's just been one thing after another. So we had to excavate and replace all the underground electric at that plant as well.

Well, hopefully now with all these things kind of coming to a head, it can decrease our dependence on New Bedford and if we could get a different connection and say, "Hey, now we can kind of go between you two and say who's going to give us a good rate and correct hopefully not be so dependent upon." So we we try to keep it between, you know, 17 and 23% purchasing from New Bedford. And in that

that year, we we we actually purchased over 50% of our water from the city of New Bedford. So we actually supplied less than half.

Yeah.

So So that was a big kill on the budget in and retain earnings. So So we're we're we're hoping to to get back to that, you know, between that 15 to 15 and 25% range. So, so that $2 million, excuse [clears throat] me, that $2 million line item, that's the purchase of water from New Bedford WS WNS.

That's it.

So, we're forecasting to purchase as much water from New Bedford in FY27 as we did in FY26. in FY28. Are we anticipating seeing that come down or like would we Well, the if everything goes well, so the the challenge with that is that um that figure that you see from last year is actually about 400,000 more, right? Four or 500,000 more um because a a number of that was transferred to a

different account due to the the significant overrun. So it was actually 2 probably four 2.5 million um not the one 1.89 or or whatever that is. Um so then we're so we're forecasting slightly less right because of this well coming online and recognizing that even with the shutdown if the um if we're in a drought over the summer the penal wall wells will still be able to operate and we

haven't had that for the past five years. And then so fast forward, if we can get our crystal ball out for FY28, if all goes well and everything is functioning, there's no lightning storms, do we anticipate that $2 million coming down to something else or and we would definitely look at it. Um, you know, things, you know, costs typically don't go backwards. They don't typically go

down, but if you know if if we were to see a trend, you know, we could we could definitely look at that. We would like to see it go that way.

Yeah.

What you're saying you may we may be purchasing less water. That's what you're saying.

Yes. And but so if that happens, we you know that unexpended balance goes back into retained earnings and and can be used for for capital and you you kind of build that buffer, you know, which which is something we'll need.

Absolutely.

Going forward, particularly given Yeah. Because we have we have a number of capital projects to to to bring our other wells back up to up to speed. We have we have our 299 and NI 687. We have projects to we have wells down in those facilities as well for for more for capacity reasons capacity of the pipe infrastructure where the demand wasn't there years ago. So it's a certain size

pipe was used but to bring those pipe bring those pumps up to full capacity for for the demand that's needed now you need a larger not a larger pipe network.

So, so we have these these capital projects laid out in our capital plan to to continue uh upgrading these facilities so we can use all of our wells.

Thank you.

You're welcome.

And as we see, you know, we have, you know, about 1,200 units of housing proposed in in town. It doesn't look like the going to be less use. So, so we're also looking at that high use.

Any other questions on water?

You sew next to him.

Okay.

Oh, is that water pollution control?

So that's uh water pollution.

So our our salaries increased uh at about just just over 1.5% to 1,280,824.

and our expenses.

Our expenses increased about that's the five 53.4% at $2,684,57 and that includes the $900,000 increase to the bioolids.

So [clears throat] those types of increases. So I'm assuming we'll have another rate study coming up at some point. Those types of increases will be factored into the next they're not currently in the current study because we didn't know about it at that time, but going forward we'll the rate study will account for this new cost.

Exactly. And then we'd have to see rates adjust for those costs to make up for.

Now, in the meantime, until that happens, is it going to be a draw on retained earnings?

Oh, we're going to need to we will do an analysis for July one or a rate increase.

So, you you'll see a rate increase for July one.

For July. Yeah.

Based on this budget.

Yeah. So the the the vendor, our contractor that currently hauls our our finished compost bioolids, they their contract ends in October.

So they'll be they'll be still be hauling our our our composted bioolids until that until that time.

And we we will try to have them take as much as they can. So we we do have some some time to stockpile before we have to haul. And then we're working on we're working on uh negotiating with with other vendors to haul in different forms because if you look at the city of New Bedford, they haul liquid sludge. So they don't dehydrate their their sludge or to create a they call it a cake. Um

they just haul it right out. And that's even more expensive where we have the we have the process in place and we actually reconstructed through OPA funding some of our our um large mechanical equipment that dehydrates the the sludge. So, you know, if we keep working on keep continue with that process of dehydrating the sludge, it it you know, we're hoping that we can get rid of it

for a lower price than what we've been estimating.

And and there was a there was a recent D meeting and uh and discussing, you know, other potential um I guess discharge locations. So a lot of times the there's there were two in incinerator plants in Rhode Island and one of them FL River takes their their bioolids too. They're closing down because they they don't want to see they don't want an incineration plant in their city anymore. So the other, you

know, the other options are putting on putting on a freight train to Ohio, you know, which is huge cost.

So lucky Ohio, right?

Currently until they can't take it anymore, right? So I mean really.

Yeah.

I mean it's a major concern for everybody. Do you have any idea how our costs for that compared to other aside from New Bedford other communities?

I don't. there aren't. So we are kind of we're one of the sole communities that actually compost our bioolids in this area. So so it's hard to compare to because a lot of other facilities they just haul. So they already paying that paying that cost you know so we've we've been making revenue on what everybody's been paying on but not anymore is what you're saying.

Correct.

Um, and then I know that obviously the bioolids increase is is a hefty increase. Um, but also there's been talk about the uh treatment plant and I know we might are going to need one at some point. Is there any like time frame um as far as when will exceed our capacity um and have to replace it because that'll be another massive hit on the you know.

Absolutely. So we have we have two things going on right now.

We have a a request for proposals or qualifications for a comprehensive wastewater management plan to upgrade our 2012 plan along with the mapping and and forecasting growth.

Yep.

So that we're moving forward with that um and choosing a consultant. And then we have our currently we have our consultant that has done a lot of the the design historically um at faceoff and thornike is now scant and they they had designed our facility and a lot of our infrastructure. So they are currently working on a flow and loading study and we've given them all the all the numbers from all the proposed uh

developments and and and looking at forecasting what what those impacts will be at our facility.

So, you know, when will when will we encroach on that 80% consistently because once you hit that 80% it's a trigger to to upgrade.

Yep.

So, I have a question and you know I forwarded some of that to you about all the housing development that's going on and obviously we have to be concerned about our capacity.

Correct. So is it possible to deny housing licensing however could be 40B could be regular if we don't have the capacity you can you would have to do a moratorum across all everything any interconnection so that would be any type of housing including 40B that would be any type of development development any type of development y and and we It would also in order for the state to um essentially allow us to do a

moratorium like that, we would have to show consistent progress towards whatever our issue is. So if we've reached capacity at the sewer plant, we could issue a moratorum across all development, right? with us showing progress towards what kind of progress I guess or how would you uh design of a new treatment plant or an upgraded treatment plant pursuing funding opportunities things like that

because the state won't accept just we're not going to allow building correct I do understand that especially when it's when you're talking about you know in uh affordable income housing 40b projects they don't want to hear we're not going to we're just putting a moratorum on because of that that project I realize the caveat there would be no and can Massachusetts in any way force or hold us liable? I'm not sure

how if I'm posing the question right.

Um with with affordable housing, yes, they essentially would if we were to deny a permit um it would go to the housing appeals committee which is appointed by the governor and um likely would not go our way during the appeal and then the town loses all rights. the project is approved at the state level and they move forward.

Do we know if any other community has done that?

Not successfully.

Right.

Yeah.

It's not it's not successful typically.

Um and also we don't want to see us hit our capacity.

Right.

Right. And that's why there's an 80% threshold. Mhm.

So once you hit that 80% threshold, um the state can actually step in at that point and issue a moratorum for you.

But that's a it's a different department. It's not housing. It's it's D, right?

And do that. And uh what is our capacity now?

Our capacity Well, we're not at 80%.

No. So we do hit the 80% mark. it. So it you know our flow fluctuates so much because it some of it's influenced by rain info in inflow and infiltration. It it's influenced by peak use at peak times. So as you know it fluctuates up. Sometimes it goes over 80% sometimes. We've we've gone over 100% in our daily uh capacity.

uh but uh you know but in the end it averages out we have a 4.2 2 million gallon per day annual average. So that's a rolling average. So once you average that out, we we stay below that 80% currently. Um so you know sometimes we're sometimes we're down in the summer we're down at the 50% mark. So so we're looking at at the numbers and and we're trying to forecast where we will be with

any of these developments and then all of them. And are there any um like state or federal programs that fund or partially fund upgrades like these at all?

So they they typically will loan you money to to do the at at low interest rates.

Okay.

Yeah. There's an organization called the uh well it used to be called mass water pollution baitment trust but now it's the clean water trust. Okay. And typically the loans are like 2% uh you know and and that's through the through the organization state set aides sets sets aside money for that uh but it's an application basis. So but but it's all it's all alone. It's not there's no likeone there's no state

aid. That was my question.

So if we need we need a new waste treatment plant we wouldn't get any state aid per se.

Not necessarily. I mean, you know, depending on who your reps are and the legislature, you know, they can try to sometimes put in money in the state budget um at earmark funds. You're not talking millions, but you know, some some support.

Um but you will see um probably this year a a project for the wastewater treatment plant with the upgrade of our aeration system, which is um you want to talk about that a little bit, too?

Sure. So, so [clears throat] the the other part of our capacity issues is biochemical oxygen demand and nutrient loading. So, so we can we only have a certain threshold for that right now and we're typically consistently over that 80% um sometimes over 100%. and as as well as TS total suspended solids. So our aeration we upgrade will improve the aeration and allow for more oxygen demand increasing

that capacity for for the concentration of the sewer. So it's not flow but it's more the concentration of the sewer.

Okay.

So it allows for more better treatment, more efficient treatment. And then it also includes nutrient reduction. So re reducing the amount of nitrogen uh that's actually getting discharged out to the bay.

Okay.

So So that project's it was estimated at around 6 million. It's probably a little higher now. So So we would like to to go for funding for that and get that project uh moving and underway and under construction.

So it's basically they call it's fine bubble aation. So, it's a bunch of it's large pumps inside our facility that are piped to a bunch of diffuses and a lot of the the large storage tanks. They're aation tanks and the air bubbles go through the go through the uh the sewage effluent with oxygen and airates the sewage.

And is this something like internal to the current treatment plant?

Yes.

So, if we had a new plant, it would just be a whole new build a whole new plant.

It's very unlikely that we Yeah. Yeah. A remov of retroar exist which is why we would be we're comfortable undertaking this project like we would never do that but it's it's quite unlikely we would actually build a new plant.

Yeah.

So I think you might build new some new facilities. Say you needed additional aeration tanks or clarifiers. So you could do that and then you know link them in series you'd connect them. Um same so what we do the upgrade of the aeration facility and and would would most likely remain for a new upgraded plant.

Okay.

And this is planned for when?

Well, we're looking at potentially doing a borrowing within the next year or so.

So, this is currently 100% design shovel ready. So, so it's ready to go. Uh just the funding.

What's the timeline on a project like that? Does it take years to complete or?

Yeah, I'd probably say about a year and a half.

Okay.

So, it wouldn't be ready for this town meeting to be voted on. Is that what you're suggesting or It may be.

June or October?

June. We're presenting uh long range capital u recommendations to the select board on March 9th and um that is one of the projects that's that's recommended sooner than later.

Well, it's coming up. It's And you said it's over the 80% threshold as far as that specific piece goes.

Yeah. So, it's it's kind of needed at this point anyway.

Definitely needed and for this additional growth, it it's it's needed.

Yeah, we we did get some funding from from the state as well for for upgrades at uh couple sewer pump stations.

Um so, we're working on that for capacity as well.

Sure.

For one of the 40B that projects that's currently under development.

Yep. Um, unfortunately when we advertised that project, it came in about, you know, double what what it was estimated at. So, so the funding wouldn't cover the whole thing. So, we we rebid it with a deductible alternate.

So, we we bid it with the the base station being the most vulnerable and and the the alternate being the the station that has more capacity. And we're we're looking to hopefully move forward with that. Well, you're in a hard spot because you're looking at these things years out and you're trying to predict it and these 40Bs are popping up one after another after another and and you can't predict the

as we design these stations, more growth is on the other side on the on the upstream side, you know, [snorts] flowing into these stations.

Can developers be asked to contribute to this?

We can ask uh well, not necessarily the treatment plant itself. If there's pump station upgrades, yes, and we've done that in the past. Okay. So, um, with the preserve on Route 6, they provided some funding. Lincoln Park provided a little bit of funding. Um, there's no there isn't necessarily an obligation to them.

I just thought as part of the give and take that seems to be going on right now with we have built some mitigation for for mitigation fees through our our sewer connection fees for uh for for capital expenses. So, so you know we can retrieve some of that through [snorts] that the permitting process. Um, and then you know for the large capital upgrades uh needed for those projects if they if we don't have

the infrastructure to support that capacity. You know it it can be difficult if if it's a non 40B project.

it might be a little easier to to ask them or or impose those fees.

So, stuff on a 40B project question. Uh, of course, there's been um conversation about Hon Country Club and the housing units there when they were doing their engineering proposal. Were they at all consulting you about what might be needed for these pump stations or whatever? In other words, were that was that in their scope or was out of their scope? you know offhand if that was taken into play.

So not during their initial design but then once they once they submitted their and and first presented their project to the town after that they were in contact in correspondence with us folks.

They didn't do any upfront uh planning prior to submitting that.

Not with us no but they have since then as part of the peer review process. You know what I'm saying? I mean, they presented to the the town the select board, but it's kind of like, you know, incomplete, if you will, that they didn't take everything into scope.

How about the um the rates? Are there different commercial versus residential rates for sewer, but not water?

Not water. Okay.

Yeah.

So they it it's been when you get into commercial um it's based on size. So you get your base rate is higher um which is basically your your minimal usage rate for that size connection but after that the tiers are the same as residential.

Okay.

All right. Next. Next up.

What's that?

Solid waste.

Solid waste.

So, our solid waste um

solid waste salaries increased to $250,53 and our expenses to $426,850.

Hey,

I think same as u I think the increase on solid waste for expenses. a lot of that um vehicle maintenance where we like I like I said that just a just a component for a break job is $5,000.

Those those are large trucks and they they they need a lot of maintenance to keep those them working. And that's why we try to add add solid waste and recycling vehicles to our to our capital plan, you know, every other year to to keep our trucks um our fleet kind of modern and and running to reduce the maintenance.

Do you anticipate having to raise the fees for trash andor the cost of the bags?

We do. We last year we did a rate study on the on the solid waste uh enterprise fund and it in it did include additional increases for following years. So so we um I we consider our our fees pretty low especially our annual fees. We in we increased the annual fees. Um but we might we might look at alternating and and either we increased the annual fee this year or we increased the bag fee.

As you know it's a controversial topic.

It is u you know there are those who still think that trash should be free. Um I won't go there. Uh they don't understand the costs that are connected to it. But I do have one question because it's come up quite a bit.

Is there a reason that we chose bags versus stickers?

So bags and the size bags in the basically one of the controversial topics is the the capacity of the bags and and the thickness of the bags. So the the larger the bags, the more you can throw out and and put in them and the more more solid waste goes to the the landfill that has capacity issues as well, right? So, so what we with our pay you throw program with the bags, it it

regulates basically how much you can throw out based on, you know, how many bags you purchase and and it it's really forced or encouraged, I say encouraged people to to recycle um and and rather than throw a lot of that into into a trash bag. So, if you just put a sticker on a trash bag, you can buy a a large black construction trash bag right at at Lowe's and put

five of those out with five sp five stickers as compared to, you know, the small and large bags, the orange bags that we have.

I think it's a um an area an opportunity for education because there seems to be so many questions around it. I mean, I understand what you're saying that's it's about use, you know. you know, maybe I put out, you know, 20 bags a week in my household and Patrick has, you know, one y and he's paying per.

Yeah. So, you know, there were different outlets where you can use. We also have our food waste, you know, so you can food waste bins at the transfer station or in some parts of town they they do curbside for additional fee and that, you know, that takes a lot of weight out of your trash and and uh and and out of the landfill. Tons. I mean, we've we've saved tons by that.

How is that going? Is it going increasing?

Yeah.

Yeah. We so we um since its inception we we started off with two carts similar to the city of New New Bedford. So look at the number of their population versus ours. They weren't getting the use. They went down to one cart. We went we went up to three carts and those carts are full every pickup.

Wow. Good.

Yeah. And and I think the last you know we were a ton higher this past month than the than the month before. So we it continues to increase and since the inception of the the pay as you throw program we reduced our solid waste going to the landfill by 40%.

And we and that that's consistent throughout the years.

And what is the capacity of that landfill now?

Oh 12 years.

Well without the extended cell without it.

Oh with with the cell. Yeah.

Yeah. With the cell. So, so the as is they were they were like five five to six years, right? You added and then they're working on extending a sale that'll give them another six seven years.

All right, that's good. Do you have any idea? Nice. I know it's predicting the future, but people 500 to a,000% increase in our disposal cost if we did not have 500. You're saying if we didn't thousand% increase. you know, right?

We we pay um yeah, the disposal cost would at least five five times more.

Wow.

People need to understand that.

Yeah, we're very very fortunate.

It's a scary thing to understand, but still.

Yeah. We're It went up to how much per ton this year, too?

28 whole dollars.

$28 a ton. Um you're lucky if you're with a private hauler, you're probably 225, 250 a ton to dispose.

Wow.

And we're at $28 a ton. Then outside of that extra cell, is there any room for expansion or are we done after that?

Um there hasn't been any um real conversation at that that point. They're continuously looking. They're they're doing a great job up at the refugees district. Y um so they're always looking, but their their primary focus is the cell that they're working on right now and they think they're going to consider other options at that point.

So I mean they're looking at the business park over there. I mean at that cost making it expand the the all the infill there because talk about [cough and clears throat] that's crazy it you know the tough part of that is because you have to go out with such a large footprint to be able to get the capacity with the slope you know so it's it's it's a it's acreage.

Yeah. There's not a lot of landfills active landfills left in the state.

Yeah.

And who's the poor state that's getting this Ohio?

That's all I could think of when he was talking. He's like, "Poor Ohio."

A lot of it's being shipped to CES. I mean, that's what a lot of They have seas. They incinerate, you know, incineration plants, but you know, the state doesn't they're not permitting any incineration plants, you know.

Yeah. So, more regulation and less [snorts] less to do with it. No one wants an incinerator. No one wants a landfill, but nobody wants to pay the increased cost, you know, and it's got to do something. Fortunately, eventually we're going to have to pay that cost, but hopefully with with this expansion gets approved, we can uh you know, extend that life quite a few years.

10 or 12 years sadly will go by in a blink.

And we paid we paid $25 a ton for since since we we started this pay as you throw program. So 28's not bad. We'll take it. Better than 225.

Whistle. Any other questions on um solid waste?

Maybe you want to just touch base on I mean we don't want to go into too much in detail I guess but um maybe just a little bit on some of the capital requests. I mean not you know obviously because uh CIPC hasn't hasn't you know uh met that yet um met yet on that but maybe just like a brief overview you don't you don't have to go into like a

level of detail that you would um absolutely at the CIPC but maybe just like a brief so basically we're you know as as as always as every year you know we're looking for some additional funding for road maintenance. We didn't, you may remember last year we didn't get any funded anything funded for road maintenance. Um, so we're, you know, we're we're using down our funds. Um, and we'll I think we're we're probably

looking at another another hopefully another $4 million uh year this year.

try to get as many miles out of that as we can uh for road construction and you know somewhere hopefully in the million or below below a million dollars spent.

How do you prioritize how do you prioritize the road uh work that you do?

So the one of the big uh triggers is is Eversource uh gas work. So, so as Eversource is going and doing their work, we always forecast for the next year to reconstruct those roads. So, we're using the cost sharing money from Eversource and then basically they pay 50% of the road reconstruction and then we we put in the rest of the 50%. In other some other municipalities, you'll see them just pave half a lane,

which you know, you you don't want to see that in Dartmouth. Nobody wants to see that. and uh especially if the road's in really poor shape and you get a new one new lane and one really bumpy lane. So any a couple of the roads uh that were under moratorium when they were dug up like Sulkum Road uh so they'll be paying that entire cost for repaving that that area from curb to curb

all the way to to Route Six. Um, so we'll be working on that. And other than that, we do have we do have a road maintenance uh program that we use.

It's an asset management program. We use beta and we we run reports and look at uh the road surface rating for for a lot of our roads and we'll we'll choose additional roads through that rating as well. Imagine the feedback you'd get if you only did one lane on Schmokum Road.

Can you imagine?

Ouch.

And then uh we we also been um we you you may have seen we've done some micro surfacing in the past. We did did some of that on Allen Street years ago. We did some on on uh was it Old Westport Road, Chase Road. Um, we're we're taking that and and we're moving that into some of our residential subdivisions that we you don't have as much heavy traffic in these subdivisions and if we can go in

there and crack seal and put down a a micro seal surface, it's it's a it's a lot less cost than a mill and overlay or reconstruction. So, we just did that in in a lot of Mry Mount area.

Mhm.

And uh unfortunately, we had programmed the entire subdivision, but Eversource had had a couple uh road openings they were planning. So, we we put a couple two of the roads on hold, but it it seems to go over pretty well. A lot of the residents were happy with it. So, so that longevity is different. Is that the it so I think lawn you know depending on the the amount of traffic vehicle

traffic that you get so it it's a wearing course so you know it'll wear more in a hight traffic area and we've done it on Sulkum road so years ago when we reconstructed Sulkum road then and when five years after that we came in and we micro sealed and that actually added longevity to the to the surface of the road. [snorts] So, but I think it'll last even longer in in residential areas

that don't get the traffic. So, so we we'll put some of the funding into that this year as we did last year. And uh and as as always, we'll go around with a with a a crack seal uh project to uh help maintain some of the some of the roads that that you know, it'll stretch out before we have to reconstruct those roads. So, we have, you know, we have over 200

miles of roads. So if we do nine nine miles a year, it's, you know, it's not really making a lot of room, headroom.

You know, you've done some major roads though. So, and I guess the roads I travel on. So, it looks like a lot of road has been done.

Yeah. You know, our main goal is to keep the main thoroughares, you know, in good shape and then and then with with additional funding, we can get all the the smaller roads and collect the streets.

Good. And and on top of that, we have a couple couple projects we're looking at.

You know, we the you know, both the gas company and and and water work. It was done on on Bridge Street and uh gas company did some work on Middle Street.

Um so those those roads aren't just go in there and mill and Olay. Uh we're looking at kind of a streetscape reconstruction, sidewalks, uh curbing and and and reconstruction of the road from Elm Street to Middle and then from bridge over to Prospect. [clears throat] And and we also have a uh a project on the tip that it's kind of stalled right now, but we're working on moving it

forward for to reconstruct Dmond Street to uh to Holland from Prospect.

I just feel obligated to say this because that's all south Dartmouth.

Yeah.

Any plans further north?

Crossroad was Crossroad. Yeah, Crossroad. People ask Yeah, we're very happy about Crossroad.

What's that?

Yeah. So, Crossroad, we we overlaid part of that from the gas work, but but the section from the assisted living over to I think Vincent Street near a fire station, we're working on we're working on a a tip project, a state transportation improvement plan project. And we just amended their contract to 100% final plans to com finish the 100% plans and submit that to the state. We've been working with them

in the state going through this project.

We had the design public hearing over a year ago and uh we're hoping to get this project shovel ready and although it's it's higher up on the tip, if we can get this shovel ready and there are other projects that that can't move forward, we may get a spot. So that's that's what we're we're hoping for for the Crossroad project. Um the Route Six um Tucker Road and uh Hathway Road reconstruction is expected

to start in the fall.

That'd be fun.

Yes.

They I they still show the plans at 75% but I I [clears throat] I assume that'll move up to 100% pretty soon.

Is that through Massawa or Yeah, that's that's through the tip as well. And is there um I know at one point they were talking about like eminent domain. Are they going to have to do that or is are they going to use what's existing and they went with an alternate design to not um go forward with that? That the town would have been on the hook for that taking.

Okay.

Yeah. So it's just route six from Connor Road to just east of of Haway Road.

Okay.

And it actually includes the re replacement of the Pascanset River Bridge.

Okay.

Cover.

Wow. So, it's not changing the intersection that it's not going to change it in the sense of um the initial plan which was where the north library was at the time.

That's not happening.

Right. That would have taken we had you would had to take property I would assume to do that.

They're adding a light um at halfway road I believe. Right.

An expansion and yeah that intersection's been on the you know dangerous intersections list for many years. So, so that'll that'll increase the safety of that intersection. And then they're, you know, they're improving the intersection at Tucker Road uh to to allow for more storage uh west of Tucker Road. So, if the housing gets built up on Hathaway, then yes, a light would be Oh my god. If you didn't have a light, I

can't even imagine.

Yeah. Yeah.

Do you know off the top of your head what um projects that money has been allocated for [snorts] are still in process?

Um what money so from from previous town meetings? Are there projects that are still that are not completed yet?

Um I if you don't know off the top of your head I can I you can get back to me on that.

Yeah. the the Center Street, Roger Street uh uh projects that we were they started we started the design, but uh one of our engineer that was working on that left. So we we just picking that up again. So we're going to move through that get that designed so we can so we can move forward with that those projects.

Okay.

So those also include u sidewalks and and curbing and and reconstruction. if you could think about that and let us know. Town meeting members seem to ask that question quite a bit. You know, when it's already been allocated, is it done?

Absolutely.

Absolutely.

Terry, didn't you have another question about grants?

Yeah, I wondered if um I had sent you something about the Culver grants. How are you doing like when those grants come out with everything that you have to do? Are you able to apply for them?

So, we've applied I think a number of times for a COVID replacement grant. Um, we we actually did get awarded uh for design funds. So, we went out and did a feasibility study. They did uh they they did a lot of the work on and submitted it and and ran out of the funding. So the following year and in and multiple years after that, we kept applying again for the cover replacement grant for that

same covert to actually do the construction and we didn't get it.

We we had you know we had a few you know we we had done the Hoth the Hawthon street culvert and then we did the that was a full replacement then we did repairs on Far Road at the Copicut River and the Shingle Island River culverts. Um, so those were funded by grants.

So we I think um we're currently working with uh with a consultant on an asset management plan through a through a grant again. So so it's an asset management for storm water which is which is specifically for culverts and then uh uh sewer collection. So hopefully we can we'll look at conditions of culverts throughout that that program and we'll be able to prioritize what coverts need need work and uh so that's

along with that we're also working with the same consultant for a water quality study and not not for um drinking water quality but water quality as a whole.

Okay.

And that's through OPA funding.

All right.

Thanks, Tim. You're welcome.

He's going to be Tim is going to be presenting to the uh capital group.

Yeah. Okay.

Coming up. So So other than that, we have overview here with We do have the aeration project on the capital plan uh for for request [snorts] for funding. We we have a lot of projects, you know, we have uh you know, our our grinder that we we grind all the all the wood chips. Um similar to that generator project, we uh we just spent a lot of money on it and to find out that

the conveyor needs to be replaced.

Um that's a $40,000 conveyor. So So that alone without the labor. So we're looking at about $50,000 to to get that.

Right now it's it's working. It's but it's but it needs to be replaced. Yeah.

Do you ever think like oh maybe I'll have a month where I don't have a major problem.

Yeah. Right. There is Yeah.

Like every time you turn around I can never think that because as soon as you think that it some something arises like every time you turn around there's something else.

He has too many things that can break and that and that and that grinder costs more than that generator. That's that's a $900,000 grinder.

Wow.

Yeah.

$900,000. $900,000.

And is that the bioolids chipper thing?

Yes. Yes.

Oh, so we might not even need it. So just ship, right? So my my plan is to my plan is to put the money into it now.

Try to keep that running and see what we need because if we go a different direction with the bioolids. We might not need the to grind to that finite mulch that we do now. Y we might need a chip. We might want to keep a chipper to to maintain chipping the residential brush.

Sure. you know, but but maybe not to the to the extent that we do now. So, [snorts] yep. And then we have, you know, we have vehicles, solid waste vehicles, recycle vehicles, um plow trucks. Um we have we have a couple plow trucks on there that don't require a CDL. Um we started looking at that when we had a number of vacancy in our CDL drivers and we couldn't fill we couldn't fill the

driver positions. So, we started looking at nonCDL trucks, similar size to our CDL trucks. So, so we have a couple of those and they're great and and uh we can put a labor in them.

What's the difference?

Um it it's basically the the brakes and the brake system and Yeah. And the weight so it stays under a certain weight and and that makes it so the licensing or whatever is different.

Yeah.

And they can still utilize a plow on it.

Yeah. No, understood. because it's hard to get those people with that.

It is. So, so now we have some versatility and we're building some more of that as well.

We haven't seen much movement on the requirement for electric vehicles. Um where you know that was supposed that went [snorts] last in January of 2025.

it and it it got pushed off to this this past year and I haven't followed up on it where they were restricting anyone from purchasing municipalities from purchasing diesel vehicles um unless they purchased a an electric heavy duty vehicle.

Oh yeah. Wasn't that something with credits?

Yes. So So if you once you buy a vehicle, you get a certain amount of credits. So you might get three credits and you can buy three diesel vehicles once you buy one one electric.

Okay. So, we were going to buy a stake body electric to put towards purchasing diesel, solid waste, and recycling because the solid waste and recycling vehicles don't have the range.

Y uh so it's almost a 2 to1 and they double the cost.

Yeah.

So, where we, you know, where you spending $450, $500 on solid waste and recycling vehicles, it's 900 to a million for an electric one that has half the that doesn't have a full range.

So you need to buy two where a big town one.

I know there's a lot of road.

Y that's right.

It's not feasible sometimes to change.

So other than that we talked about a water treatment uh facility upgrades. Uh we do have uh through the Fonts Connor road I to uh Hathaway Road Route Six project. They they they do have to do some work to the water man and enable to replace that culvert for the past river and we did design a the replacement of the water man throughout that whole project. So once that we just again

looking for funding for that and that's about that was estimated about a year ago at at 1.2 million.

We've asked the state for uh funding on that haven't we?

We did. Yes.

Yep.

Yeah.

To to create capacity for additional housing, increasing this that pipe size, but we didn't get it.

We got to get the state to like us more.

Good luck.

Yeah.

Thanks, Tim. You're very welcome.

Thank you, Tim.

Yes. Thank you.

Feel like we always pepper you with questions, but we always learn a lot.

So, we definitely appreciate appreciate you coming in.

Absolutely. And I I know somebody asked a question about uh recycled goods. You know, what what we're paying for them.

Oh, I did. It was part of the solid waste series of questions that I had.

And I I do have some some papers that I I couldn't get actually totals of what we paid today because Munice was down because they were doing an upgrade on in the morning. And uh and uh I do [clears throat] have some some some POS that we have for different uh vendors that if you want to take them.

We may Oh, that'd be great. We may come back to you when we write our letter to the town meeting to.

So we a few DPW fun facts. Yeah.

That I think people need to see.

Yeah. And I we um you know we work a lot with with the district with the refuge district and they help a lot with finding these vendors or outlets for a lot of these recyclable goods like the mattresses with hand up you know they actually recycle the mattresses. I don't know if you've seen their facility they do with them they actually um they take they take them they they they cut all the fabric

off them. They recycle the fabrics. Mhm.

They take all the any metal, they recycle that and they all the all the products they they recycle separately and then anything um within a certain time frame after being purchased um there's a small window that they can actually sanitize and resell.

Sorry, it's a little frightening.

I wonder why the mattress is lumpy.

And uh and but you know so I did visit the facility and and a a lot of their stuff that they're reselling is like that purple mattress.

Oh yeah. Yeah.

Well, somebody will order it and and say I don't like it. You know they use it for a week if not and then they the the company won't take it back.

Okay.

So basically Handup will take it.

They'll sanitize it and resell it. So stuff like that. I figured those types of things were either sold at a heavy discount or something when somebody, you know, tries it for their whatever trial period they have going to Ohio.

But in another question was compar comparing uh the costs to other communities, what they're paying.

And I know with the communities that use the landfill, I know that the the district works with us. Um but outside of that, I'm not sure of cost. we'd have to do a a study on and that's never done as a uh you know a group of towns working together. It's always done where the town handles that individually.

Right now it is. Yeah.

I'm just curious if there's ever a cost savings or if it even makes a difference whether you know we can group with I don't know pick a town Westport or whoever to Yeah. Sometimes regionalizing will allow for for sometimes better costs, you know, but a lot of our a lot of the recycled goods that they just cost so much to to get rid of, you know, nobody really wants to take our plastic bottles

or our tires, you know, and you know, it's No, it's horrifying the waste that we create. I know there's no easy solution.

Yeah, we hit a a snag over this past summer where Republic was was on strike Republic Solid Waste Services and they run the Brockton uh processing facility where a lot of our recycling goes. So they actually had a the teams were actually picketing and didn't didn't want anybody crossing the picket line.

So we were looking for other outlets, you know, temporary outlets that that were actually costly, more costly.

So were they on strike a long time?

Yes, they were.

Great.

For months. Yeah.

I think you do a good job of managing the resources that we have, the relationships that you have with people around you with the recycling program and all that. And if you if you look at our our transfer facility, it you know, I I think it's a larger and we offer a a lot of recycling opportunity that you don't see at other other facilities. So, we we offer a lot, you know, it's good

and it keeps it out of the landfill.

I don't know. I'm an aid mostly off the side of the road.

A lucy little road.

Lucy little.

Thanks Tim.

You're welcome.

All right.

Uh, so, Madam Chair, uh, town ministry update was really nothing nothing new for the for this week.

Nothing exciting's been happening over the past week.

Lots of exciting things, but I think the biggest one's probably the ion water.

Um which Tim Oh, yeah. That's true. That is big.

A nice job of getting that out. on the team did so and water bills should be hitting people's mailboxes soon.

So, the truth is now we don't have to actually call to get the actual account number. Apparently, there's a link.

I read today online. I was waiting. I wasn't, you know, I didn't need to know right away what my water usage was.

We have Chad who's a wid with these little tool programs. So, as long as we can get him the data, he can create the little tool to make them make them work.

So, actually, you just as long as you have your water account number, put it in and it'll populate your account number with your customer ID that you can use to create well water log on. It's great.

I have a little device on my system at home called Water Hero.

Yes, I've heard of it.

Very handy. Now, it's a mechanical device as well as a software device, but yes, I can I can look up right now to see if somebody's running the shower, but can you can you hit the stop button?

Yes.

No.

Oh, no. I have it set. So, there's Yes.

So, if you go away on vacation, John, are we this?

Well, he installed it.

Oh, I mean, you think I installed something on our water man? for them.

Um, we had a couple of friends who lost a major part of their houses due to a water mane break in the house when they were away.

So, this way it alerts you if the water runs for a certain period of time and it will automatically shut it off as well because it's right on your water man.

Oh, in coming into the house.

It's a little more expensive than what you're suggesting for that program.

Yeah.

Which is free.

Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. And uh the uh you know I've always shut my water down when I go away.

Mhm.

You know if nobody's staying at the house and I grew up like that too. My parents always my father always said Makes sense.

Before we go I have to shut the water off. So everybody use use it now. You know.

Yeah.

Better better safe than sorry.

Oh no. And a lot of times it, you know, it's like the washing machine or something like that and No, it's important information to know, especially if you're away for any length of time.

Yes. Yep. So, you can just go on your phone, uh, bring up the app and and look at and see if it it's actually running.

It's great.

Good.

And hopefully our our our water bills, the quarterly bills will be going out uh sometime next week.

Good.

Okay sir. Thank you.

Thank you. [snorts] So just next on the agenda a reminder to the uh committee that uh on 3526 we'll be having the D public schools in um Jim Kylie will be in to present the budget.

Uh and also just an update on where we are with capital. We'll be meeting with uh the various um departments and then Tim will be in at the beginning of March to discuss capital with CIBC and those as the committee knows are televised now. So, everyone can watch those at home.

Um, also, as a reminder, everyone, as we did with Tim, it would be nice to give questions to Mr. Kylie ahead of time versus having him show up and we asked for, you know, a fiveyear study on comparison cost between whatever.

Yeah, I think it worked out well um sending them to me and then I can send them to Tim and Tim, you know, in that example, send them to Jim and then he can respond and uh we'll send those responses back.

really looking for information on the school committee bud on the school budget. They did present it at the last um school committee meeting. So, right. No, that's a that was a good overview. See if if anything is concerning to you or if you have questions. I it's se he's talking about 7% and that's I think that that's because they're including what they need, you know, and then we're just

going to have to talk about that.

It's higher than it's been in the past, but I would say that's why Yep.

Good night, Tim.

All right. Good night.

Good night.

Um, do we have anything next week? Is there So, um, I guess we can talk about that, right? Uh, next week we we don't have anything if I guess if the committee has anything that they need from either myself or Cody to present uh any additional [snorts] information, but I think right now we're we're in good shape to maybe skip the week. I know we don't want to, you know, those are words that just send

a chill down my spine, Gary.

I think that, you know, there's there's really nothing new right now until we meet with the schools, you know.

Yeah. No, I know.

And we we hear what the schools have to say and then we come back with uh a final I mean, well, a draft budget cuz we need still need to go through the draft budget in total. That's So, I wasn't here last week. Have you looked at all the other smaller departments? Have people looked at those budgets yet?

I sent those to the committee.

Okay.

Yeah, we did briefly. you know, it's a it's it's a lot of information to look at in a very short period of time.

So, what I what I envision is that the schools come in, we we have the same um uh you know, we we we allow one meeting with the schools and then we also also wanted to invite in uh Vogue. I wanted to invite them in. So, [clears throat] my suggestion was that we we I think we talked about this having them at the following meeting.

Oh, okay.

So, that'll be March. Um we can look at the calendar right now. So, we'll be meeting. So if if in fact we were to skip next meeting, we would be meeting on uh the 5th with Jim Kylie.

We could potentially have Voke in on the 12th.

You know, uh but I would suggest that as we did tonight, we allow one full session for the schools.

I agree.

Oh, absolutely.

Because I think it's a little too much if we stop mixing on the department.

It's a complicated budget like the DPW is. So there's always a lot of questions and whatever. And um and then we um on the 19th h or you know we have a a draft budget that we can look at in the total in the aggregate and that's pretty much in line with what we have for the for the calendar.

Y yeah I don't think we have anything that's pressing at this point in time um that needs to be done. I am going to wait and this is to address your question Terry or comment that you had sent to me about the Dartmouth Finance Committee handbook. I I'll reach out I have copied the moderator a couple times. Um, I will reach out to get a direct response before we upload that to the finance committee web page.

It's I did have one suggestion on it to take her email out and put a general reference that if somebody's looking for the moderator to look on the website or talk to the town clerk because she may not always be the moderator and that that um true but you know I look at that as a working document too.

Okay. having you know so it could be updated later we think it's three pages so I don't things might change in it I don't know hard to say I'll ask her actually I mean that's a comment that's certainly her input maybe she doesn't want it that way um but yeah you're right that's a very specific that's the only I think very good I think it looks I think you did a great job with it

well it was your brainchild Terry so I think it was a group effort amongst everybody and their and their input very Um, what was the other thing? Oh, I sent the notice out about how we have to uh take our tests again, our educational course. Did you see how the split was on who'd done it and who hadn't done it?

That would be me, right? I had Well, any of us that have been here for any length of time.

Yeah.

Because apparently we weren't on the new system where we got automatically notified.

Yeah. whereas the newer folks in the last maybe two, three years seem to get notifications from the state about retaking it. Well, I'm on the capital committee and now the capital committee is interviewing candidates. So, I'm really glad I got on before that started because I don't think I would have been chosen.

Why do you say that?

Because I don't know anything about capital. Not a lot about it, but um I'm learning a lot there. So, so we are meeting um simultaneously obviously with the budget advisory group too. So, uh that we have another meeting coming up.

Uh and then we've also got the tour scheduled for for that for that group. Uh that group's going to go on the tour for the uh have a budget advisory meeting before the tour, do we?

We do. We have one schedule.

I saw that, but I didn't see anything referencing it. So, okay. So, it's definite.

Yeah. Correct.

Uh not but we we've asked um uh Jim to come in to talk about his budget and also uh the fixed cost because I know he was going to put that together for us.

Uh so what you know we're um I've reached out to him. I think he might be on vacation.

Okay, good. And then the tour's still on and you'll send that out to invite will come out tomorrow actually.

Oh, okay. Good. That's fine. I have that my agenda too. And everybody knows about the tour of the Right. We talked about last week March 2nd. Is it second or third? I forget.

It is the go. You don't have that memorized. We'll find out tomorrow.

Yeah, I know. When the email invite shows up. I'm going to say it's the 3.

Yeah, it is the third.

Yep. It is 8 a.m.

Okay. So, we have a meeting next week for Cody. Could we talk to either DCTV or I don't know what other technical people might be available to address the screen problem because it really is a problem.

I mean, working in this room is a good thing, but that is that is [clears throat] problematic.

Yeah, we can we can see.

I know. I it might it might be hard to fix, but there's got to be something that we can do.

I asked for a capital request last week, Terry. That's in the meeting.

Okay, good.

Wasn't didn't seem to be warmly received, but I thought I'd throw it out there because apparently it has to be moved.

Yeah, the camera has to be moved back.

The the projector, right?

Yeah. The problem was that's the issue when they did it access wasn't um great when they did this over. So that wasn't an option. So they got this is a special projector that project is able to project closely.

There may be some setting adjustments that they can but we'll we'll we'll include it.

But yeah, it is it's not great.

The screen doesn't seem to be wrinkled at all.

It isn't. It's has to do with the positioning of the display somehow.

It's a reservation.

Well, especially when we go through like the schedule A and have all those numbers on the screen. I have to see it on like LA last year was my first year. We were in that room every time and it was a huge screen and you could like actually see everything and zoom in on it. So, as we get to that point, I think it'll be pertinent to be able to see the things.

I wonder if we could just not use that projector and use another projector from the table.

Well, you've seen it. I'm pretty sure you were in the meeting when we had the TV. Mhm.

The little dilemma we'll face on that is if we do have a couple of Zoom meetings over the next couple weeks.

Yeah. Then we won't have the TV has to be used for the Zoom meeting.

We have I've been at meetings where they have individual projectors that somebody We do, but we use usually use 309 for that. I mean, we could project somewhere.

The challenge is is DCTV is able to pick this up into their feed.

So, if you notice that they can actually the screen can be shared into the feed with DCTV.

Oh, right. If we do as a a projector that's on the table there, they can't pick up the feed directly.

They're actually having to focus the cameras on the screen.

It's always something.

Okay.

No, I know. We have to be able to display the screen and the video to to take a look at it.

So, would you like a motion to adjourn?

Well, um you on reports and um so that that would be my suggestion that you know we we send the we send um we have Mr. Mr. Kylie put together some we if there's questions for the group we send it to Mr. Kylie at least as the week to work on them send them back and then we regroup we regroup at the next um not the next not the next Thursday but the following Thursday.

Okay.

Now I'll send an email out to everybody to remind them to watch that school committee meeting so they've got a good background and that might give them inspiration on what questions to ask.

Has he sent anything in paper on paper or on his documents yet?

No, but we can share the link. The budget's been posted on their website.

Okay. Is that public?

Yes.

I just haven't looked for it. I watched the meeting.

Jim told us where it was in the website.

Yeah.

That might make it easier to come up with.

No, people need to look and get some background before they start peppering questions because my experience with the school budget is it's about a 100 pages.

Yeah.

I haven't looked at this year's might be less but or more. It's right under 100.

It was always voluminous. That's the challenge with these with these budgets is that they, you know, it's less important to say this is a 69% increase or this is the money. It's more important to put it in some kind of a context to explain to people um what's different, what's been accomplished, why is this like the question about the new person. Um it's a challenge. It it really is. Jim does a

nice summary sheet, but even that doesn't answer.

No, he's got a very complicated budget.

Yeah, he does hit the highlights though of why it might be this increase that he's asking.

We have to make it available to to town meeting because um otherwise you get hung up on silly little questions, you know. So, we hope the budget book that we're going to put together this year, too, um is is at least a step in the right direction with a lot of that information. Again, it's not going to be perfect this year.

It's our first year putting it together.

It's a lot of work, [clears throat] but I think um it's a step in the right direction. In in subsequent years, it'll really touch on everything.

This is for town meeting.

Yeah, it's for the public. Yeah, it's public in general.

Okay. And it's going to offer explanations on various aspects of the budget.

Yeah. Essentially, think of like the annual town report that gets put out, but just focused on the budget, right?

State of the town.

Yeah. Been talking about that for a while. Exactly.

Yeah. No, that's important because let's face it, not everybody loves those spreadsheets, right?

Gloria Bankraftoft used to run a review of the warrant um Yes.

before the town meeting. She couldn't keep that up and nobody else picked it up. It was helpful for people who no people a lot of people would go to that to to ask questions and various people were there to give answers.

People need to uh you won't mention something like that [clears throat] at the last meeting. You will be doing that like a a night before pre town meeting. Um we don't have the date set. It'll probably be like a week before or something to kind of get some of the questions.

We're gonna we want to perfectly time it so it's after warrants go out because we want to include it in the packet. Yep.

Where the date is. Um but also enough time before town meeting.

Yep.

And you don't want to have it too where people are like almost forgetting.

Yeah. Right. You want it Yeah. somewhat close to town meeting. Yeah. No, that makes sense. Um, leazison reports.

Leaison reports. Anybody at this point?

Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope. Uh, anything else interesting? No. Somebody want to make a motion to adjurnn?

I will.

I'll second.

Patrick second. All in favor?

I I Thank you.

Thank you.