Finance Committee Meeting - March 5, 2026

Thank you. I want to call the finance committee meeting to order on March 5th.

Uh please join me for the pledge of allegiance.

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Please note that this meeting is in person and is being recorded. Um I just want to make one statement before we begin. We do not have uh public statements. Um so the people that will be speaking tonight are the folks up here. Obviously our two guests and um I invited Bess if she had comment to uh make a comment as well. So just please be aware of that.

So, our special guest, who's speaking first, Dr. Sab Maguire.

Thank you.

Thank you so much. I appreciate being called a special guest.

So, before u Mr. Kylie gets into the really the details of the FY27 budget, I'd just like to um provide the finance committee with a little context about the work behind it. So, this budget was developed with careful attention and we want you to really understand that with both the needs of our students and the broader fiscal environment here in Dartmouth. We recognize that you as a

finance committee play an important role in developing budgets and in recommending budgets and you help to guide the town in making decisions. And we appreciate you and the time and consideration you bring to your work. And we also appreciate that oftent times you have members of your committee who come to our school committee meetings and communicate with us on a regular basis.

So, like many districts across Massachusetts, we continue to experience cost pressures related to contractual obligations, special education services, transportation, and utilities. And so, throughout the development of this budget, we have really worked to identify efficiencies and ensure that existing resources are being used as effectively as possible. At the same time, we recognize that's a delicate

balance, and you're going to hear Mr. to Kylie talk about that balance and get into the details of the work that's gone on behind the scenes. So, thank you.

Thank you, Dr. S. Magguire, and thank you, Finance Committee. You know, as you probably know, we've been working on this budget for a number of months. Um, and we appreciate your patience and um, you know, attention to um, to our presentation tonight.

So, as Dr. Save Maguire mentioned um this budget is intentional.

It is tied to the strategic plan. Um specifically uh there are objectives in the strategic plan that address budget but also address all areas of the student experience um at the Dartmouth public schools. And the budget is really targeted to support those support achievement of those uh objectives.

So, I thought I'd start with a little about our students. Um, student enrollment in uh for next year is expected to be quite um stable.

Elementary class size currently averages 22 students. We're projecting that again for next year. Middle school class size averages 21 students. And high school class size, it varies. There are classes with 30 kids in them. There are also ca classes with with that number in the teens depending on the type of class an AP class or may have less students in it um than a general math class let's say.

Uh so our studenttoteer ratio overall is 12:1.

That's slightly larger than the state which is 11.9 to1.

a little more about about our kids. So, we continue to see that 43% of our students are in the high needs category.

So, it sort of topped off with COVID there in 2122 and has remained stable since that point. Um, we were we were happy to see uh that our lowincome population actually came down a little bit to 29%. Um and it seems to have sort of leveled off in in that vicinity uh since being up at 33% in uh 2122.

Again, that's good, but it is um substantially up 11% up uh from where it was 10 years ago.

Our students with disabilities, we cons continue to see increases. were up to 21.9% um from 13 1.5% 10 years ago. Overall, what we're really seeing, we're continuing to see an increase in needs uh for for our kids. Um so, this budget directly tries to address those needs.

So, the per pupil spending, we're $3,824 per student below the state average of 319 districts. We're 263rd in the state. I was a little surprised to see that the variance increased as much as it did. Um, last year we were $2,752 per student below the state average. So more than $1,000 per student increase just since last year. So what that tells us is the gap is widening and basically we're falling further behind.

We're $592 per student uh below average in teachers. Of the 319 districts, we're 187th. In the prior year, we were $276 per student below average in teachers.

So again, falling behind in that category.

We're 38% or $1,418 per student below average in insurance and benefits. We were 303rd of 319 districts in spending.

In the prior year, it was pretty consistent. We were also

a little bit of widening in that area.

Um, we're 32% or $243 per student below average in administration, 281st of 319 districts. That was similar uh in terms of the deficit to the prior year.

In operations and maintenance, we're 35% or $650 per student below average. 286th of 319 districts, similar to the prior year. Uh we're 8% or $200 $21 per student below average in pupil services spending. We're 163rd of 319 districts. Uh in the prior year, we were just $9 per pupil below uh below average. So from $9 to 201 pupil. So again, u widening a little bit the gap there. So you know what what does this

data tell us? Obviously it tell because we're an above average school district and we're significantly below average in spending tells you you're getting a good bang for your buck in terms of um you know the the cost to benefit ratio. uh but I I think between this data and this data um this is not a sustainable pattern and so with increased student needs and a continuing widening of the

gap in terms of what we're spending compared to other districts um we're going to get to the point where it's just not sustainable for us and more investment is going to be required.

So this is another way to look at it.

Um, so this is our staff per 100 students. So this is a Department of Ed published and you can pull it right off their website. Um, and you'll notice really I guess what's significant about this is that every um every category we have less staff per 100 students than the than the state average, which I guess shouldn't be surprising if we're spending so much less.

So, in terms of the FY27 budget, um there are some significant factors that we had to consider in preparation, the biggest one by far is salaries. They it represents about 80% of our budget where in the people business, we take care of, you know, more than 3,000 students every day and therefore we need lots of staff to be able to do that. Um so cost of living adjustments for this upcoming um

budget year range from 3.5% to 5% plus contractual step longevity and other contractual increases mean that our salaries overall so 80% of our budget is going up by about 5%.

So that's by far the biggest portion of the increase that we're proposing.

But there are other things um funding to support our increasingly needy student population in terms of contracted services, tuitions, um transportation, all are increasing significantly.

For some areas of the budget, we've incorporated an adjustment to reflect actual costs. So things like supplies, we actually haven't increased those budgets since 2019. And we you know we know what's happening in our own personal lives and our work lives and um you know the rate of inflation of the of you know even just common supplies has been significant since 2019 and because of budgetary limitations we haven't

addressed those and we've tried to you know do do more with less but um you know we've at this point we've we need to adjust those to what they should be.

So we're doing that in this budget.

Similarly, we've adjusted athletics and mi music budgets that haven't been increased um in to the level needed to support those programs. We've also increased the maintenance and utilities budget significantly. Um we've talked a lot in town and various committees about the you know the need to address our facilities and um you know I think it's well you're well aware that our facilities are getting older and they

need more and more attention. um this doesn't reflect major improvements. So this is just routine day-to-day maintenance to try and keep up the facilities. So this is what we believe we should be spending to do that.

So we have some budget recommendations for fiscal year 27. Um the first um several are supporting our high need student population. So we are proposing four education support professionals, one in each of the elementary schools.

Um so back on slide six, you can see that we are significantly underst staffed. I can I can take you back back there in terms of paraprofessionals.

That's what we that's what the state calls them. We call them education support professionals. Um we're significantly understaffed. So these four positions would directly support increased student needs.

We are also proposing uh three registered behavior technicians at the elementary schools to support students and staff uh implement behavior plans.

So registered behavior technicians. They um implement behavior plans that are created by board certified behavior analysts. So we have two board certified behavior analysts in the district that really try and create plans that that can um you know address some pretty acute student needs. and um these folks would help implement those plans.

We currently have one adjustment counselor at the Dartmouth Middle School um for 840 kids. That's not right, not appropriate. Um and we are proposing adding an adjustment counselor at the middle school. We're also proposing adding a job coach for the Atlas program at Dartmouth High School. So, we currently have um 10 students in the program. Uh we created this program a couple of years ago. This program served

the Atlas program if you don't know serves um students who are ages 18 to 22. So postgrade 12 um we're responsible for their education until until they um you know through through age 22. So, um, next year we're going to have 14 students in that program and the the which is fantastic because if they weren't in inhouse in our program in our in the schools in their town, they would

be going to a a school somewhere else.

Uh, and we'd be paying for them to go to a school somewhere else. So, it's much more cost- effective to keep them in district and it's great that they're, you know, staying in school here in Dartmouth, but um in order to accommodate 14 students, we need a we need this job coach position. So, in fact, we're saving money by, you know, doing it this way.

We also have recommended one special education team facilitator position. So, that position uh will support students with special needs and the staff that serves them. This this position would allow us to have a full-time uh special ed team facilitator at the high school and Dartmouth Middle School. Right now, we have people who split. So, um we're proposing that. We've also recommended the addition of one

additional maintenance staff uh person.

So, um, we have five maintenance staff people and, you know, given the age of our facilities and what we're trying to accomplish, we really feel it would be, um, most appropriate to add a position there. We've, uh, again included the human resources position that we've previously recommended.

It's a clear area of need for us.

We have a technology staff position included uh to provide needed student and staff support.

We've also included a stipen for seasonal athletics event coordination.

So that's for us to better manage some of the largest public events that that happen in this town. Um you know our our sporting events tend to be the you know really you know well attended public events in town and um it's a stipen position $15,000 spread out across the year to to help coordinate those events.

We've also included a halftime FTE uh elementary music instrumental music teacher to help us reinstitute elementary music lessons in grade five.

So that that went away that um you know opportunity was eliminated for kids a number of years ago and we'd really like to bring that back as a good opportunity for students. So what does that mean? Um there are 13 and a half staff positions that we have recommended and added to this budget request.

There were other requests that um you know that that our team, our principles, our administrators and staff feel are are important and that um you know we were hoping to include in the budget but we weren't able to. a behavior specialist at the elementary level.

That's a board certified behavior analyst position that I talked about adding another one there. Special education teacher at the elementary level to support students and a reading specialist at Dartmouth Middle School, but we did not incorporate those into the budget, unfortunately.

So, um I'm happy to answer questions about school choice spending plan, but I won't go into it in detail. What I will say is we um would be continuing the plan that we worked in collaboration with you folks on the finance committee and the select board last spring to um gradually reduce reliance on school choice um over the next five years.

Well, now it'll be four years. So, at that time last spring, the boards agreed uh upon this plan, which was to increase operating budget spending by $245,000 annually to bring us to the point after five years in which we expend what we bring in. So, we bring in about $700,000 a year in school choice. Now, I will I will say that um school choice, we don't have to participate in school choice.

The school committee decides if we are going to participate in school choice.

they do that on an annual basis. Um so there isn't a guarantee that that cont that that revenue continues to come in but it has been for quite some time and um will be for next year. So um you know obviously we'd have to adjust the plan if that weren't the case. But this would get us to that point where we're you know spending approximately $700,000 a year.

So what does all that mean? So the fiscal year 26 budget was is 55,431,558.

We we um add in the impact of those key budget factors. So that that whole slide that I that I showed you and explained which is 2,781,229 um which is a 5.02% 02% increase. And then the impact of that school choice reliance plan, $245,000 added back into the budget from school choice, which is44%.

We add in the budget recommendations, which are $768,500.

Those are the 13.5 FTEEs that we have proposed. And the FY27 draft budget is $59,226,287 or 6.85% increase over the FY26 budget.

So what does that look like in terms of how we spend um the money? So instruction, this category of the budget would increase 5.3%.

Administration would increase 11%.

Maintenance and utilities 10.7%.

Other services 12.7%.

Tuitions 9%. Total budget increase again 6.85 technically. Um Medicaid is a it's a small separate budget line. It's as you can see right now $46,935.

We do need um an an increase of at least 10. We we need more than an increase of 10% to be honest, but an increase of at least 10% in that um budget line. That budget line generates revenue for the town. So last year in fiscal year 25, it generated $300,197 of revenue to the town. So we have a person who um does all the Medicaid paperwork essentially and files the

claims and then the town gets gets revenue from it. So um that money pays the consultant who helps us submit the paperwork and part of the salary of the person who does all the work and obviously generating $300,000 in revenue in fiscal year 25. We want to make sure we maximize that and continue to do that next steps. Well, March 2nd isn't a next step, I guess, and so already passed,

but March 5th, we're we're here tonight um you know, speaking with you folks. We have a budget advisory group. I think we just determined what what date that is.

I believe that's March 9 going to be March 19th if everybody can make it. Um March 23rd we have a public hearing on the budget. So a school committee meeting in which there's a public hearing that'll be at Dartmouth High School. Uh we'll have the opportunity for the school committee to review the budget further that night. And I believe um that we are we have we are trying to set up a town budget presentation for

that meeting and possibly a um joint meeting with the select board at that March 23rd meeting. We'd love to have you all there as well to um you know in the audience. That would be great. And then April 13th, school committee budget review and vote. That's at a school committee meeting. And then June spring annual town meeting and maybe some other things that we that we haven't yet

encountered. Some other dates certainly, but um that's the bones of what we have left to do.

And that's I'll take a break from talking and so I have a comment because I watched Monday night's meeting and I understand it's a challenge for the town to meet this request.

So that gives me a couple of questions that I want to ask. um you know what reductions did we take on the general government's side to get to what we offered the town offered the school committee for their budget.

So we um we we are we've talked about health insurance. That's a big piece of cost. Obviously we were um just informed that our rate increases through Maya. We are still exploring other opportunities but um through Maya our rate increase is about 8%. We had budgeted a little bit more than that. We were in that 12 to 10 to 12% increase. So that freed up a little bit of the cash we'll call it. Uh

we also you know I think in our review with departments um the the message has been clear that we really are focusing all of our efforts on education this year due to a lot of the reasons that Jim has um opined on. So, departments, I think I've mentioned before, we don't have any um everything's level service uh in the general fund um you know, outside of schools with the exception of

um 25% of the budget for a DPW business manager and then part-time administrative support for our conservation uh department. Um Gary and I have had conversations. We're actually going to withdraw the request for a facilities director. Um and that helps to free up some um of that funding. So, we've we're we're working um and we've let all of our departments know that it's it's bare bones this year for their

increases and that's what we've seen.

Okay. And my second question, and this comes from something I heard at the meeting as well, that um with that change and lowering what the school is asking for, what exact contractual obligations are we not meeting for this proposed reduction?

Well, I mean, so staff raises, I mean, we wouldn't if if our increase was going to be 3.9 4%. Which is the 245 was which is 3.5% and and um the $245,000 from school choice. I mean, we wouldn't be able to we wouldn't be able to pay people the raises that we've agreed.

Okay. Um, and in fair I have many more, but in fairness, does someone else have Terry?

Well, I just have a request to just to say I feel that there are things in the budget that are not optional. What you just said, I don't think that's optional. I think that what I would like to know maybe either tonight or if you can do it later, I'd appreciate it. the Atlas program and the um RBT services that you're providing. Could somebody do up a worksheet that says this is what

we're paying and this is what we'd pay if we vented out or sent kids to out of because when you say kids have to go to other schools, it's not other schools like these. It's schools that tuition are at least 60,000 plus transportation. But I there are people on the committee that I don't think would know that and it would be helpful I think for them to have that.

Well, yeah. I mean to to give a basic answer to your question, one student, so one additional student that we had to that we would have to send out would cost more than the Atlas job coach. So never mind four.

So I in my mind all things are not optional. No, that's not some some things that is something that if you went to uh court and fought it, you would lose. Same thing I think on the contractual stuff. If you went to court and fought it, you would lose because it's not a future contract that we're talking about, right?

No, I mean, we have contractual agreements with folks. Yeah.

Hi, thank you. Um, just a a couple questions. I'm I'm new to the finance committee and um I appreciate Jim your your hour and a half you spent with me early on so that I could acclimate myself here. So, thank you very much.

You're welcome.

Um, I appreciate very much you pointing out Medicare and how we have to separate that because Jim is right in regards to the money that that generates on behalf of either your town, your regional, or wherever your school district is. So to spend 51,000 to get the $40,000 and you literally have to bubble everybody's three times 30 times 15 times. Oops, snow day. Bummer. Go back and readjust.

So, thank you very much for pointing that out. I think that that's always a pretty big one. Um, your school choice entry grades, is it just grade nine or just grade nine? Thank you.

High school, we can accept 10th graders.

Um, yeah, occasionally we we originally like, so we begin the process by trying to bring kids in in ninth grade. Um, if we needed more kids or 12, right? Right. Yeah. Very seldom do we do do we bring in students in 11th or 12th okay grade but occasionally we might we also um the state allows for a preference for siblings.

So if a sibling was a 10th grader and wanted to come in sibling of a student was already there we we may um you know accommodate that request. So thank you. In regards to your tuition, uh, your 900 near your 9,000 series, I don't see circuit breaker anywhere, right?

Was your tuition netted 100% of your circuit breaker incoming?

Yes. So, so the the circuit breaker money this year that is being paid to the town of Dartmouth. So during fiscal year 26 is going to be spent as part of the fiscal year 27 budget um in tuition.

So tuitions overall are about $5 million. Um so you know this only this is only the operating budget portion of tuitions but the 900 series that is in the 5900 I'm sorry $59 million is netted from the anticipated circuit breaker reimbursement.

Correct.

Do you have any monies left in fund circuit breaker fund balance andor other fund balances outside of school choice?

We we expend the entirety of our um so our two so our okay so we have a couple of sources that um of funds to um to pay for tuitions um circuit breaker for those who don't know is state funding for students who cost over a certain threshold. Okay. So, it's a threshold of per pupil expenses. Um, and and what happens is any a student who costs more than that threshold,

the state will give us a portion of the money back. So, um, so that is one source. We are required to spend that in its entirety by the June 30th of the f of the year after we receive the money. So, we receive the money quarterly and we re we're receiving it right now during fiscal year 26 and we will expend it in its entirety by the by June 30th of fiscal year 27

if if that. So, that's one source. The other source that we spend u that we use to fund tuitions is our idea grant. to that.

Um, so that we spend in its entirety each year uh for as a source to pay tuitions. IDEIDA is a federal program special education um grant that we received about a million dollars.

So there's no fund balance left in circuit breaker as there is in school choice. Okay.

No. No.

Thank you. We we we cannot legally extend those funds beyond June 30th of the year after we receive those monies.

Yes. Then you're paying we can pay summer tuitions and roll it forward based on some of those accounting methodologies we might have available to us.

With respect to 93142 and 89313, is that the slide here that says grants for 1.8 million?

Uh yes.

Yes. Okay. The the You're speaking of the 240 grant.

That's 240. Sorry. Uh that's also Well, it's the 240. That's the That's the DESI code, but 94142 is the federal code. Yes.

Sorry. Thank you.

That's the special ed IDEIDA grant that we're talking about that funds mostly tuitions. It also pays for some of our staff, but um the bulk of that grant is for tuitions.

And the total values of those two grants, is that the 1.8 million?

Uh sorry.

Yes.

Thank you.

Yes. Okay, that's all my questions for now.

Yeah. No, I swear.

We're just joking.

No, I used to be the administrative. I used to be Jim in another dis another language in another world. So, I speak his language and so thank you very much.

That's why we're giving numbers that nobody else knows.

So, sorry everybody. Sorry.

Sorry.

But I get it. I really have it all.

Thank you.

Uh so it's good to hear that. Um, we were able to free up some cash on the health insurance forecast that we were we were projecting. I'm hearing that the rest of town government is bare bones level service.

Is the 3 and a half% that is going to be offered to the schools going to allow the schools to have level service?

I mean, if that question is for me, no, it's not possible. So in that scenario, it would be only the schools that don't h doesn't have a level service budget in that scenario with a three and a half% increase.

Are you asking me a question?

Whoever can answer it.

Um well, you know, I think and I've talked to you about this before. I think the challenge here is I don't want to create a narrative of of town verse schools, right? So I think we want to stay away from that perspective because we're all one Dartmouth. That's that's an important approach here. Um and and we've gone into that recognizing that some departments which I consider the

school a department of the town um being in in a higher need scenario than others. And so we've gone into that with with that in mind this year. Um I I'm not here to say it's efficient or if it's um enough. I think that's why we have a school administration team here.

They're presenting you know what what they need. Um, and and Gary and I are here to present what we have available for revenue. That's, you know, and so I think that goes back to we don't have a problem in my opinion of this department getting more than this department. We have a problem of not enough revenue to cover the needs of the community. So, I just I I I get what you're saying, but I

really I don't think it's effective for us to to say town verse, you know, schools, general government verse schools because um the schools operate within the town and are supported by all these departments, right? So, and I'll give the example, there's a lot of things not in the general education budget that are also funded, right, that provide support to the schools. Our health insurance um budget is around $9

million. about 7 million of that is school employees. So that's a number you don't see here. Comes out of the general government side. Uh property liability insurance. That is a a figure that is uh funded through the um town's fixed costs that covers all the schools um insurance in there. Um the police department has three four SRO's at the schools. I believe some communities fund that through the

uh the education budget. In Dartmouth that's funded out of the police department budget. So we're all one Dartmouth. We're all in this together.

Um, and I don't think the issue is one department getting more than the other or cutting more than the other. We have a revenue problem. Uh, I do agree we do have a revenue problem. But I do want to point out that it seems that we are always asking the schools to reduce their staff to make that budget work.

I'll leave it at that.

So, I understand that you're saying that, you know, we have a revenue issue, but so far the finance committee hasn't seen, you know, like a spreadsheet that's saying, you know, like we usually say it for. Um, so, you know, we usually vote on that till right before. So, um, you know, I'm having a hard time understanding because the past few years we have given more than the 3%. So, or

the 3.9% that we're proposing to give them. We've given up in the four and a half at least. So, there was only one year we gave 3.5.

Last year, last year was 4 4.2 4.4.

Yeah. 4 point. So, it was 4.3 then 3% the year prior. Yeah.

That was that was a challenge.

challenging year for sure.

We had quite a few we left and then it was like 4.2 the year prior to that.

So I think it's important for the for the town to understand to see at least a tentative spreadsheet because we're all about transparency. a tentative spreadsheet that says where all the money is going ex like at least you know a proposal before we get to town meeting and then have it in front of us and not a chance to talk about it so that the town understands if we really don't have the revenue where do

we go from here that's exactly right I I would like to Ryan give a couple of comments on this on the revenue side um I uh I think for the two or three years I've been saying that Dartmouth has a structural problem uh with its revenue. Uh and I'll just spend about five minutes trying to describe it. uh that uh since um 2014 and that I just picked that as a because of the

data was around to uh the preliminary budget numbers that were shared this year 13 I know it's changed now but it was 13.5 uh for fiscal 27 uh non-school services that is general government services since 2014 to 2026 have been growing at 2.64% 64%.

And schools have been growing in that same period at 3.84%.

For a combined total of 3.3.

So the issue for us as a town is that oh and then uh the the gorilla in the room is the school budget which is currently at roughly 57% of the total budget. And if you project that out to uh 2035, it's going to be about almost 60% of the total budget. So what we're faced with is funding a 3.3% budget growth with a property 2.5 constraint.

So that means we're 8/10en of a percent short. uh when you put the balance budget plus the um plus the uh 2 and a half% I think you're both saying the same thing.

Well, what but that's what I'm saying.

So the point of it is it's it doesn't really I mean this is this is great but the issue is we don't have enough revenue.

Absolutely. But the town needs to be aware of that and the town needs to to decide well what are we going to do about it?

Exactly right. And so there are a number of options uh and they range anywhere from cutting costs across the board one Dartmouth cutting cross regionalization.

Uh there's some towns doing things like regionalizing their um dispatch police dispatch uh and saving money that way. Uh the other thing would be to look at new revenue sources.

Uh which would be things like the economic development that we've discussed before.

Uh things like what kind of people No, that's not the right term. What kind of families do we want to welcome to Dartmouth in terms of uh their impact on the school budget.

Uh we should be trying to push things like a lot of empty nesters that put in more than they take out.

um and uh things of that nature. But it's it's going to be uh I estimated using the old numbers that we'd be about a million short this year.

Yeah.

Which makes it very difficult because you can say you want to do an override, but how many overrides has the town got in it before people start saying, "No, I don't want to do an override."

So the only way you're going to get an override going forward maybe one time or two times is to start showing that uh everybody's paying attention to regionalization, increasing revenue, cutting costs, all the other things uh across all departments, right?

So what we need is a what we need is a uh a plan uh that covers the whole town from a strategic point of view which is the initial initial problem and then trying to figure out how much we can actually spend and recommend to the voters and everybody's not going to get what they want I suspect in the long run.

Gary just add a few things. Um so I I think it's no surprise that we've we're here where we are right now. Uh over the last I would say decade, you know, we've we've struggled in towns like like Westport and Dartmouth and the South Coast with with limited amount of revenues and it's it's there's a number of outside factors that that play into that. Um we put a list up on the screen the other day with

all uh the fixed costs for the town. Uh these are these are assessments and and and charges that we have no control over. The town has no control over. So, um I think when when when we put the revenue projections together, we're pretty somewhat conservative because um we don't want to have be locked in the corner where you know we we're given a budget that in in the same fiscal year

we're having to make cuts. If you remember back in the Romney administration, for those that are in the room, there were nine C cuts. So, that happened mid year. We had to let teachers go, firemen go, police go in mid in the middle of the year. So, we have to be somewhat conservative that that we have protection against that. We we're hearing from the state that they could have a billion dollar revenue

deficit in this in in the fiscal year.

So that between that means between now and June. How are they going to solve that? Are they going to cut are they going to try to put back door taxes onto the onto the communities? Are they going to tell us in some instances we got to raise our motor vehicle tax triple the time the times that what we're doing now? You've got a thousand you got a $100 uh uh motor vehicle tax now it's

$300. So these are all backdoor taxes that are being put on the communities so that we can have the ability to raise revenues. Uh when we were up at the MMA conference, we talked about maybe going a little bit higher than two and a half.

They don't want to hear it. So um you know it it's a struggle for communities like Dmit that are kind of in that spot where you know we're considered a community that can can can ability to pay. But in fact we don't have the revenues to do that you know and that that's what that's what we've struggled with. This is nothing new. This has happened over the last 10 years. Look at

our state aid record for the last 15 years. It's you could draw a straight line. Um, so this is these are the outside factors that we're dealing with and we would love to say, listen, we have we have we got a money machine in the back room. We're just printing money. But the problem is we have to be prepared for whatever they come down with. And I'm I'm fearful that between

now and June, they could potentially, if we're lucky, keep level level funding on the state aid and make no additional cuts to state aid. And and that's this is something we have to be cautious about. So the other issue though with state aid is if you apply the inflation rate it's actually going down 30% over the last year.

It's not going up. So it's even worse than just a figure.

I mean you've got three you've got three sources of revenue. You've got taxes that we can only bring two and a half in. You've got the state aid which is kind of flat right now and you have local receipts. So you know we can only do so much with local receipts. We you know we cross our fingers that people are going to buy cars. We're collecting excise tax. we're earning the most we

can our investment income. Uh but but there are we're locked into that. We we can't just go out there unless it's an override like was mentioned before.

Those are the only those are the only real ways to to generate new funds for the point the point I was trying to make is even with one override it's it's 2.5%.

And the whole budget is growing at 3.3%.

So the more it grows, the the more we're going to have problems. And the way we've handled it in the past is to cut general u the general government.

But an override would adjust the budget so that you would pick up the costs on a rolling basis. So from the override perspective, you've got a lot of decisions to be made as far as the community is concerned. What to override and what for? Water, sewer, new school operating. So, I agree with you. It's all coming fast. But if it's my understanding and I know I'm new at this, isn't that what the budget

advisory committee is for? Or do I misrepresent my understanding there?

So, there I mean there's a lot of things that that could potentially happen though that takes a lot of planning. So, we talked about override in the past. If you remember last year, we we had thrown that out. We talked about maybe potentially going for one and not, you know, not just for the schools, but maybe for the town. you know, on the on the on the general government side, we

still have some shortfalls that we like to do. So, that's something that if we're going to do it, we need to start sooner than later. And if you look at the communities of Massachusetts, um last year there was 70ome communities that potential overrides doesn't mean that they they passed. Most of them probably failed. That number has doubled. So, that number is nowund and some uh you know are going out there

looking for an override. So, what does that tell you? The state is pushing this back on the communities to say you figure it out, you generate the revenue.

So when that number has doubled in the last two years, what does it mean in fiscal 27? Is that going to now triple?

Are you going to have threearters of the communities in Massachusetts going and to try to attempt an override? So this is where we are. This is where we are. I think that both Cody and I have had the conversation that that could be on the table. Uh, and we look at that potentially, but that needs that needs a lot of thoughtfulness and needs a lot of, you know, we need we need to think

that out before we say, "Oh, we're going to we're going to go for an override."

It takes a lot of careful planning to make it make it done, right?

Brian, please. Can we wait to be recognized until we speak? Because some haven't spoken. Patrick.

So now we've seen expenses, you know, 10, 15%, you know, every year, year-over-year. And I know we're constrained to the 2 and a half% every year to raise taxes. But when you say when you were at the MMA convention and they said there was talk about was that about raising the cap like from two and a half to three or but the state doesn't want to hear that. And now the motor

vehicle exercise, what have they given the ability to raise that up to?

Nothing right now. Nothing yet. Yeah.

that the governor has filed a bill, the municipal empowerment act that would give uh community as the local option.

So the community would have to accept that through town meeting. Um it's it doesn't exist right now though.

So it's it's just year-over-year where where expenses are up tremendously.

There's no cap on that, but the revenue is is where the cap is and it's just getting to be unsustainable.

And if you think on an $80 million um levy, what half percent would mean, I mean, that that's a lot. That's a big number for communities like Dmit and not allowing communities like Dmit to have that ability to to tax at least 3% or up to 3% I think is you know and also when was that cap when was that cap put into place?

1980 80. Yeah. So it's like things things go up over time. They have to 40 some years 50 you know what's hap what's happened between now that and now and and look at what's happened as far as like inflation up and down and now we're probably one of the highest inflationary rates in the period you know we're we're we're being stronghold on how much we can raise I just want to um add to the

conversation that um obviously it's a long-term solution that we have but the The education of this community is critical. We ran three three workshops this year and the attendance was abysmal.

But we do have a representative government and at that meeting there have been some good conversations about this problem and what we can do. But these people at the table even select board members are not going to be able to solve it. So it's really up to the community to decide what they think is important. It's difficult these days because people don't trust government.

They just don't think we do a good job.

But it the word has to go out that it's not just to the parents of kids. It's to everybody. And why why would I who have no children? Why would I benefit from supporting the schools? That argument needs to be presented to people so that they understand. And that's that's going to be a long time before any proposal because what Cody I couldn't remember if it's Cody or um Gary said overrides are tricky. They're very

tricky and they don't they don't go as well. And when you run one and it doesn't go well, it's pretty hard to run another one. I Carrie, uh I did just look it up.

Success rate of overrides in 2025 was 58% of the towns successfully passed their overrides. Yeah. Just thought I'd bring that.

Were they operating or capital? I don't know. This is what Google that's how you figure it out.

Um I have looked at them and they they're mostly combined. I think they won't do um two comments. Um, in regards to regionalization, um, two weeks ago there was an editorial in the Boston Globe about water resources in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts and they highlighted the Quabin reservoir issues out there. I think I've mentioned it in one of my first meetings here. I sent that e I

sent the editorial to to Cody and I said what infuriated me about the article is it talks about the Commonwealth. It talks about the Ipsswitch Bay. It talks about the South Coast and the Birkshars, I'm sorry, Southshore.

never mentions some of the largest cities in area mass in the Commonwealth on the south coast. We have Fall River, we have New Bedford, we have Dartmouth in the middle, we're buying 2.5 million from water over here and some water planning from an engineering perspective conversation that talks about a $5 million water line between Fall River in here. If we're really talking about regionalization,

excuse me, water I think would be an awesome thing to really truly think about, which is why I sent it to this gentleman and said, "Why don't we create our own water resource like the MWR?"

That's pretty big. I wrote down regional dispatch because we tried that on the Northshore and it was a pretty big Brexit as soon as it happened. Newbury report pulled because we just wanted to run it ourselves. So there are pros and cons to the operational kinds of components of regionalization but the opportunity for bigger thinking uh is pretty big. And the only thing else that I'll kind of roll into it,

again, I'm new here, is I first came on board when the monies from the park and Rex grants were denied. And I I don't understand that. That's the kind of grant thinking I'm thinking about. And I mentioned that to Cody as well. That was a pretty big $2 million and it involved water and water resources. So, I kind of throw that because that was a pretty big big opportunity. The other last thing I

think I'll say today is that I I listen to the meetings of DPW because I'm the liaison to that department. I'm sorry to public health. I haven't gotten to you yet. But when I see the amount of engineering studies and the amount of engineering work being done in the town of Dartmouth by your three big guys, Webson in Goliath, Webson and Samson, you've got a $25,000 in DPW and we're doing something else at DBW. All

engineering and they typically will result in here's the plan in order to move that forward. So I would love to know how much money we're spending on engineering services in the last couple of idea uh years and if and what that is moving forward.

Dearra, did I make any sense whatsoever?

Of course.

Thank you.

However, can we go back to the school budget?

Oh, of course. But it just kind of piggybacks.

Sure. They're excited about that.

I'm so sorry, John. on the school budgets and and budgets in general and and the pickle we're in and the pickle we've been in for a number of years. It's my belief and feelings that we as leaders and I say leaders, finance committee, select board, school committee um has got to figure out a way and present to the town a solution.

Yep.

An override of this. We can't rely on well what do they want? What will they accept? They're looking to us as leaders and we've got to go to them with a recommendation. Uh this is what we think may or not work. This is what we think will happen if we do nothing. We'll be forced to make decisions on education or we start cutting police, we start cutting road maintenance, we start

cutting those are the kind of things that we need to educate people. people on but still we need to go in with what we think is best. They expect that from us and we're not doing that. We haven't done that the last few years.

Agree.

We need to get together and sit down as groups and combine and say what's going to be the plan. Uh we need to do that sooner than later. Yeah.

Uh I I I know an override is going to be tough and that may be just one piece of the puzzle, but it's up to us to make those recommendations to town meeting.

I'm I'm tired of everybody and I'm part of it just sitting on our hands, you know, like it's going to go away. It's not. And you know, we've been through rough times and good times and we've talked about regionalizations in the past when times get really rough and then times get better. the whole thing disappears because regionalization doesn't happen overnight. I agree. We should be looking at that. But that's a

long-term solution to put something like that together. And we start going down that path when things are tough and then when things get better, everybody seems to forget, you know, I've seen it three times in my lifetime and being a town meeting member for decades now. Uh so again, as leaders, we need to get our heads together and and propose something to uh the town meeting.

Brian, I I think um there are a number of different options. And I think what we really need to do is under cost reductions, create a list.

Under regionalization, create a list.

Under increasing revenue, create a list.

go through those lists and figure out the easiest ones. Pick the lowhanging fruit and get together a plan under each of those things where we can uh cut costs, increase revenue, or whatever we need to do. and then see in the short term and in the medium term how close we can come to mitigating against that 3.3 uh% budget creep every year which may include cost override I mean not cost override

um uh proposition two and a half may include a couple of those maybe the first year maybe the third year uh but we need to get a plan that's backed by numbers financially that mitigates these rising costs again in general government as well as the schools.

Thank you. Can I bring us back to the school budget again?

I just said mitigating the increases in the school.

We have a budget advisory group meeting a week or so. Forget the date. Um and I'm sure you're going to share those ideas.

I will.

And getting back to the schools, you know, I think this is all good discussion. This is a discussion that that must be had in this town. But the immediate problem that we're looking at right now in what's in front of us is that we're talking about an $800,000 plus shortfall in allowing the schools to maintain level services. Never mind the implementing any of the budget recommendations, which me as a father of

of children in the school system, I I understand personally the need that is being requested, right?

I know why the registered behavioral technicians are being requested. I know why the additional teachers assistance are being requested because my kids are in it. Um, and I don't have we don't have a money tree.

We don't we don't have the ability to print print money in the back. But to ask the schools for a third year in a row to not at least maintain level services uh to me is is is wrong is wrong. So, I don't know how we go about figuring that out, but it's something that we need to figure out before town meeting um to enable the schools for the first time in multiple years at least

maintain level services like the rest of the town, sorry, has been able to do.

So, Mr. Kylie, what are the opportunities for using and I know it's a sensitive topic uh using the monies that you have 2.1 approximately in school choice funds, $30 something,000 in a kindergarten stabilization fund. That's significant money.

Yeah. Yeah. So, um you know, it's onetime money. So we last year went through the whole discussion regarding school choice and I think you know the the plan here which gets us to the point of spending what we you know bring in is a smart long fairly long term five years over the life of it be four years uh after this year um you know a smart way to approach it. Could you use more one

time? Sure you could. The similarly the kindergarten Well, I guess it's not really similar. The kindergarten stabilization account was created when the town had half day kindergarten and was going, it was before my tenure. It's about 20 years ago. Uh was going to full day kindergarten. And there was a probably very valid concerns that that it may not be sustainable budgetarily to

continue full day kindergarten. And um at that time so they created this fund and it was funded by the school department budget annually, $50,000 a year. There's $367,000 in it. We haven't funded it in years because to be honest, the purpose of the of of the establishment of that account no longer exists. I mean, we can't go back to half day kindergarten. Like that's not that's not even a thing that, you know,

is a consideration. So, um, so that money is available and should be spent at some point for sure. Now, it's onetime money. It's never going to have another another penny of income uh in it. So I I don't you know yeah we could use it.

It doesn't solve the problem though is what you're saying.

Well it sol I mean it it could solve a very shortterm problem but it it um you know Mr. Hatad and I were talking about this and with with Dr. Save Maguire and and Mr. Carrero. We met the other day and we were talking about that the thing is I mean it it just increases the cliff.

Y which okay if you're going for an override and you're going to get the override maybe that's a strategy you use to spend it.

Um but if you don't get the override then it just increased your cliff. But but it's a structural deficit. This plan is a structural deficit. I my new glasses is FY34. There's a structural deficit of something. I'm sorry, I can't.

Yeah. So, so my point my point is is is you're you we have a structural we're talking about structural deficits on an average basis of 3.3%.

When you use one-time revenue to fund your operating, your structural deficit is in there somewhere, right?

So, my it becomes an operating issue that there's not enough money to fund operating budgets. Period. So, but I I wholeheartedly agree using more school choice funds just perpetuates structural deficits with the use of onetime money would be a short-term potential solution that that increases the the problem.

Maybe have to look that in combination with an override that something else to get us past the first year if we had a plan that went out two or three or four or five years to mitigate costs. Well, the challenge that we face is, you know, we say override and we say it very lightly, but first of all, there's the odds that it won't pass. Yeah.

And that odds have been those have been proven in Dartmouth. Um, so you're kind of facing that and it's not just we don't wake up and all of a sudden there's an override. There's a series of steps and votes that have to be taken long before anybody agrees on what the override will be. And the problem we have now is immediate and will not be solved by an override that may or may

not happen two years from now.

That's the question that we face. That's why I ask about money that I see sitting there. And and we all know this. We've all been around here a couple of years.

It was done in the past to solve a problem. Of course, it also caused a bit of a problem at the same time, but it also solved a problem. And that's why one year was very low as far as what the schools received for their uh cut whatever their increase.

I hear I hear us talking a lot about the problem and it's great. I love it. But I'm not really hearing any solutions.

I'm not hearing any solutions at all other than cutting staff.

Is increase is increasing increasing revenues. Um well, how wait, I haven't heard a solution. Don't just throw it out there to the community that there are things that there isn't a solution.

There's things like um you need one.

Well, I mean, this is small potatoes, but that's the reason I was talking about getting a complete list under each of these things. One of the things you could do is I believe it's it would be legal to put a um a tax on food uh for Dartmouth.

Uh in addition, we have a local meals tax. Oh, we already did.

So, it's these sort of things. That's a small thing, but you'd have to you'd have to really go through each of them to find We'll be voting on this budget in a pretty short time, and I'd like to be really talking about how are we going to solve this problem.

Well, this is this is this is a long-term problem. It's not a one-year budget problem.

It's a structural It's a structure.

It is a structural problem. But what are we going to do for the next upcoming school year?

I don't know. That's why, as John Susie was saying, we have to get in a room with everybody and figure it out or they money that they have. And I'm not suggesting that's, but that's money that they have.

I know.

Bigger cliff next year.

Well, they wanted to solve it now.

Terry, we need a plan.

Doesn't really help the problem long term because the school committee are there empty seats at the elementary or middle school level? And as the school No, there aren't. Okay. Not there's no we would not entertain increasing um increasing school choice population at the elementary level.

There's been a little bit of discussion about the middle school. We average 21 kids in a classroom at the middle school.

Yeah.

There's not there's not much room.

Yeah. Have you ever thought of regionalizing your elementary schools with great configurated special specific buildings?

K2 35.

Well, you've got some building issues, facility issues, new buildings coming in.

A major problem. So, we've thought about a lot through the years. I mean, you know, I'm in year 16 here. The the thing with Dartmouth is it's the third largest community in Massachusetts. And the more we spread out, like if we had a K2, it's like the high school. It's kids from everywhere in town, right? So, um, it can it could be done possibly, but you have to look at, you know,

transportation costs and whether or not you could accomplish that with the existing transportation system might be an issue because, um, you know, you you have to cover the third largest community in Massachusetts.

um with multiple different configurations, it could it can get can get kind of tricky and our buildings are not centrally located. So well two are but the others are definitely not. So um so that that makes it difficult but thank you.

Speaking of transportation costs, I sent you some information the other day.

Yes, you sent me a question. So I I I've prepared some information about that. Um so a member of the finance committee um the the chair sent me on behalf of a member of the finance committee a question about transportation fees. So I guess what I would say is that at this point in the process the school committee has not entertained um instituting a transportation fee. So um

I I I don't want to speak I can't speak for the committee regarding this. I can only offer you my own opinion and um some information about what a transportation fee would would entail.

Um last year we charged $374,921 in fees. Um so the Dartmouth public schools charge families $374,921 in fees that offset expenses. So pretty substantial amount I think in terms of uh charging transportation fees. So there's a lot to consider, but um our cost of transportation is about 2% higher than the state average. It's one of the few areas we actually are above state average in spending. It's not

necessarily a good thing, but um but but it it is mostly because we are the third largest community in the state and we're super spread out. Of the 20 largest school districts in the state, we're 17th in cost. So if you look at land area and you you know Taton is big, Plymouth is big, there are a whole b other you know large communities, some on the south coast, uh we're 17th in

cost. So I think that tells you that we're getting pretty good bang for our buck despite it being costly to manage you know such a large community. So se so in terms of fees itself 17% of Massachusetts school districts charge a transportation fee. They average $250 a student.

Um so about 50 55 districts charge a um charge a transportation fee. We had a transportation fee. So, uh, about 20 years ago, we, um, in Dartmouth established a transportation fee. It lasted one year. There was community outrage. Not to say that's 20 years ago.

That's ancient history, I guess. Um, but, uh, you know, there was community outrage and the select board the following year said, um, we're going to take care of it, stop charging the fee, and they gave the money to the school committee. So, little context on that.

Um, in terms of like what it would mean, some students wouldn't be eligible. So, if a student's low income, they wouldn't be eligible to pay a fee. If the student uh in grade K through six live more than 2 miles from the school, they're not they're not not, you know, they can't be charged by law. Um, if uh students have an a individual education plan, an IEP, they can't be

charged. So about half our kids come off the rolls with with those categories. Um there's other things that we would need to take a look at that are beyond sort of um our scope in terms of increased traffic because I would assume that you'd have more parent pickup and drop off and less people paying the fee. Um increased draft traffic particularly on Sloum Road, Dartmouth Street, Russell

Mills Tucker Bakerville Crossroad Hawthorne Street. um the the areas where we have problems now. So, you know, that obviously Chief Lec would you know and his team would need to take a good look at that and see what the impact might be. The other thing is uh we have we do have already parents picking up and dropping off their kids. We'd have more we have a very limited window of um

staff time after that we pay for um currently after dismissal. So after the bell, we have staff for a period of time and those are the sta those staff members get kids safely to their parents. Uh I would imagine if we increase that in any any significant level, we would probably have to pay additional staff. So there's there's a there's a bunch of considerations.

Uh one thing that I'm really concerned about is potential for increased tardiness and absences. It's the exact thing that we are fighting to to minimize. it's been an area of our focus for us. Um, you know, kids in school do well when they're there when they're there on time. Um, so we really don't want to increase um, you know, those issues. And then the other thing is we have, I'll just be frank, horrible

um, horrible sidewalk access to the buildings. Mhm.

So if if not paying a fee means, you know, more kids are going to walk, I don't think we're in a good position to accommodate that. We we don't have a good system in this town to um you know, for for student walkers in in almost all cases. So I'm just speaking for myself, not speaking for the school committee. They have not entertained it at this point.

Those are some of my concerns, but I have shared them with previously with a um the member of the finance committee who I think what caught my attention with this and you have the data obviously that I sent you. I mean, first of all, if you were to undertake this, you should, and I'm sure you would talk to the 57 communities to see how they implemented it. And one of them is very

close. Westport's had it for years. Um, but the thing that really caught my attention was, and this is from almost 20 years ago, was that it apparently generated almost $700,000 a year. Now, I realize that number could change, but it's hard for that not to catch my attention when, you know, you need more income.

Yeah, I think I think with the average fee being $250, I I can't see it generating more than maybe $200,000 of revenue, but um but it depends, you know, it depends what participation rate you get and what, you know, you might maybe you need less buses because of it because you get more parents driving to school. Now, in my opinion, that's not a good thing for us.

um we don't need more parents at school every day pick up and drop off. We need more kids riding the bus. So that would kind of counter that. But um I don't know, maybe it could save you a bus. So that would be some money saved. But uh but yeah, I you know I think realistically if we were looking at an average fee, it could be a couple hundred,000 potentially.

I hate to overlook a couple hundred,000.

Go ahead. So, I think you gave a lot of good reasons uh why that could be challenging on charging transportation, but I'm just thinking my own experience like do you do you have a good handle on on how much additional revenue is generated by the schools through student activities or donations to PTO's, you know, I think of all the things that I spend money on with my kids at school for school, going to a theater

performance or going to an athletic event. Um, I mean, I have an idea. So, so like I said, we, you know, in terms of fees, that's not exactly what you're asking.

We, you know, we generated almost almost $375,000 last year, but the fundraising groups in order to fund raise and represent that they're a um, you know, a school group fundraising, they need to come before the school committee, and the school committee approves the fundraising requests annually. So each PTO, for example, comes in and says, "We're going to have cookie, you know, cookie sales,

booster thunch of different activities, right?" Um, so yeah, I know how much it is. It's $450,000 that they that they raise each year for school activities. That's the PTO's, the booster groups, um, like DSMA, um, our music association, um, and student groups themselves raise a significant amount of money, uh, like sports teams, mu, you know, um, music related groups, robotics, different, you

know, different groups. So, yeah, about $450,000. So between those $450,000 plus another $300,000 in additional fees, we're tripling what we could potentially we're already tripling what we could potentially maybe get from a transportation fee.

Well, it's about eight it's about 8 and a quarter between the between fees, but I mean we're already getting those right now. Well, you know, they the the funds do go to PTO, but I mean that's PTO support our programs. So, um you know, thank you. You're welcome.

Janine, just one last question.

Yes.

So, uh, Jim, at when at the FY26 when we settled FY26, uh, that was a 4.2%.

Uh, was that considered a level fund at at that point? Was the budget level funded at 4.2%? Yeah, we had um so one of the things that we've done through the years and I think the thing that has kind of helped us survive the you know and support the increased needs of students is we have reduced staff we have reallocated staff um and some combination of that in each

year you know for the last I don't know it's been a long stretch Um so you know really to meet those needs you mostly it's staff related um to you know to meet those increased needs of kids. So we've you know reallocated staff basically to do that.

So level service we've increased class size. That's not level service.

Um but we have traded that to try and meet the needs of our neediest kids. So, I guess I guess I'd say we're not really providing level service to all kids um and all families.

So, in essence, to get to that same scenario this year, that would mean that you would request 5.2% an increase of an increase of 1% of what was given to you for a level or we'll call it level services, level um budget over FY26.

I think that's Yeah, that's generally correct Gary.

Thank you.

You just have one more question.

Sure.

Um and it's just to address something that I've heard sort of mentioned uh from time to time in in various contexts. Um the uh Dartmouth public schools historically uh turns back very little at the end of the year where you know and I think there's some curiosity as to you know how on a $55 million budget we could possibly forecast so accurately that we turn back $800. It's like a thousandth of a percent.

Um can you help help us understand why that you know how that happens?

Yeah. I mean, first, contrary to public opinion, I'm not perfect and I can't predict it that well, so I am not taking any credit for that. Um, but, uh, you know, I wish we had a lot of money to turn back. I mean, if we did, that would be great. Um, the reality is we're a low spending district, right? We're real low. We're $3,800 a kid below. And, um, we have lots of needs. And so

because we're such a low-spending district with with needs, at the end of the fiscal year, um like one of the things that we do, the first thing on our list is to prepay special education tuition. So, we've been doing it every year of my tenure here, and it was done before me, too. It's a smart thing. A lot of districts do it. There's uh the Massachusetts general law allows for

prepayment of special education tuition.

Now um the reason it's a good practice is it allows for a one-year buffer. So what you're doing in June, you are paying for tuition that is coming due in September, October, November and so on in the in the following year. uh in the event that it there was an extraordinary increase in special education expenses in the following year, you could survive it without having to go back to town

meeting. Um if that extraordinary in increase doesn't occur, then you prepay it again and you're back to square one. uh if it does occur the following June town meeting, you're going to have to increase your budget by whatever you're prepaid or whatever you've used of the prepayment. So, it gives you time to react to the most volatile area of a of a public school budget. All it takes is,

you know, the needs of one student to um impact a school district more than a quarter of a million dollars, sometimes, you know, 300 plus,000.

Uh so that's a big variable that you have no control over. Uh so we also in Dartmouth, we don't have a special education reserve account. So there was a little discussion recently at the school committee meeting about that. Um and and one of the thing it was brought up uh when we started talking about the kindergarten reserve account.

Should that instead be a special education reserve account? Now in Dartmouth we've never had one. So um a lot of communities do and basically it's meant to do the same thing that we do by prepaying.

Um, but $300,000 in it, you know, that could be used for for something like that. I mean, the alternative to not doing this at all would be you either increase the budget or you hit the FINCOM reserve fund and use that up every year for special education expenses. I mean, those are the only alternatives. So, um, things happen in special ed. I think we do it prudently and um and that's the first thing we do

with our money at the end of the year.

If you pay the same amount every year, then it never it just is always the same amount. So the amount you're spending, you know, that we're we prepaid in fiscal year 25 is being is being used now for students in fiscal year 26, which hopefully will be able to free us up to be able to pay it in June of 26 for fiscal year 27 and just keep going and going and going. It just buys you

time. That's all it that's all it's doing. It's buying you time. Just to follow up on that, that's exactly how it needs to be done to ensure that the school department at any time during the school year doesn't take a midyear hit.

The other thing at end of the year that I would do is fill the postage meter, top off your tanks, your oil tanks, propane tanks, anything that you could possibly justify under MGL that would allow you to do that. so that you could utilize the monies that were raised and appropriated for public education in the appropriate man. Every last cent I had like $4 left in a budget. June 30th, I

went to the post office and bought stamps.

You typically want to spend every last cent you're appropriated, particularly when we've been taking hits for so long.

times the amount of Terry, I'll start off by saying that I don't have a solution, but um when I joined the finance committee, I heard story stories about the town of Dartmouth shutting off street lights, every other street light. The the place was in an just chaos, it sounded like to me.

And since that time, what has happened is we we have a long-term capital planning committee. Now, there's a budget advisory group and that's gonna solve a long-term problem. At some point, we're gonna So, we we we do have to solve this problem. And I don't know, I think one of the reasons they go to the school budget is because it's huge and they they feel like there's more.

But, as you start looking and that was the other thing I was going to say, I have learned in the 10 years that I've been here that there is almost no fat.

The the department heads do the best they can to manage with the with the money they have. And it's it really can never be towns versus schools. It's not like I know in some towns it's like they feel the towns aren't managed well or in other towns they feel like the schools not managed well. That's not the case here. It's m both are managed very well.

So it is it is and the other problem is I know people talk about revenues but municipalities have very little room to bring in revenue. We could talk to our friends, get people to move in, you know, their businesses here, but I don't know what else a town can do except rate. And I I understand that people don't want to pay more taxes. Why would they?

Now, I'm also going to say something that isn't going to solve the problem immediately. So, um, a couple weeks ago, the, um, police chief came before us and talked about his capital plan. And one of the things that he was requesting was a staffing study. Now I realize that's a little bit different for what he was looking for, but it made me think about the fact that especially for a

department that is more than half of our budget. Have you ever looked at a um operational efficiency study from a third party?

We haven't done one. I mean, you can, you know, we're low staffed and we're low spending, but I'm not suggesting that, but I know that that's not, you know, a direct answer to your question. So, no, we haven't done a we have lots of audits and oversight from the Department of Ed, we're pretty much constantly in a state of um oversight. Um, even even though the US Department of Ed is like a a

fraction of what it used to be, u Massachusetts is still gung-ho. So, um, they're not our favorites necessarily, but they're around a lot. Uh, so I mean, we do well on all those reviews in terms of It's not a review outside party that you hire.

No. No.

I'm just wondering if it's ever a consideration with such a large budget.

I h I can't speak for the school committee on it. I mean, it certainly could be. It's an we have outside auditors too but um you know in terms of right before I got here what they look at are the finances no no I understand believe me I've sp outside a not these are not friends of people right no I've looked at a couple of studies that were done in other school districts and they're very indepth

um and they look at all sorts sorts of things that maybe you're not thinking about. I know you say you are and I'm not criticizing. I'm just saying that sometime a third party review and it just caught my attention because you know our uh police chief is very uh good with his budget.

Um and he's asking to have it take a look to make sure he's staffed correctly.

And I thought, you know, this is something and I'm not suggest maybe the whole town could do it, but I'm just saying seems like with the budget uh dilemma that you're facing, it might be worth a look.

Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, I can just say, you know, we've we've been prudent in terms of, you know, the way our the way we have adjusted our staffing. We've reduced staffing through the years and reallocated staff, like I said, to meet those students needs. We have I mean I'd like to say I'd like to think that we have a very good handle on it but I totally understand your point. So who's the outside auditor?

Uh it's the town's auditor. They what what's the name now? They keep ciz now.

They they keep changing getting you're not using a school auditor like Grady Oconor and all those.

No, not anymore. We used to we used to use Hagen Sahadi um years ago, but we've we just do it with the town audit. It's just easier. your student activities accounts and all your specific accounts like that. Thank you.

We're done with our problem solving.

We're going to rely on the budget advisory group to fix that. Get back to us.

Got a meeting coming up. It's going to be hot in that room.

No more questions for Mr. Kie or Okay.

Thank you.

Thank you all for your consideration. We appreciate it.

Thank you for your patience. Good work.

Thank you.

Thank you very much.

We understand there's not easy solutions to this and we appreciate your thoughtfulness and your time.

No. Thank you.

How many What's How many snow days do we have?

We're on June 23rd. Seven snow days.

We haven't done that in years.

623.

Yep. June 23rd. Tuesday is our last day of school right now.

day right after.

I'm sure it's probably exploding right now.

Wow. Seven school.

This is old school snowdown.

Thank you.

Thank you.

The last man.

No problem.

Last man standing on or sitting. one of those three, you know, we're a fun group to listen to generally. We really are the way we are. We don't we don't brawl amongst ourselves very often.

I was thinking again what a great idea that is that you So town administrators update school.

I wish I had a good idea for this. I know. Sorry.

Let Cody speak, please.

Oh, Cody speaking.

Oh, yeah.

Who's whispering?

Sure. Um, we've just been very busy working on the budget. Uh, as I mentioned, health insurance did come in at about 8%, which is actually good. Um, you know, it's crazy to say that 8% is good, but it is considering, you know, some communities are facing 20. Um, so that, like I said, that that was helpful. Freed up a little bit of cash for us. Uh, happy to share. We got a $250,000 green communities grant, which

will actually all go towards um the Quinn School for some energy efficiency projects over there, HVAC uh, upgrades.

Um so our our energy manager Kathy Stanley has been working uh diligently on that. Uh Monday we'll be presenting a long range capital um basically a recommended debt schedule um for the select board to consider and see if that's something that they want to take up. Um the first um of that debt would be taken out in fiscal 27, so this coming year for some of the enterprise funds. Uh and then we'd have some debt

uh in the general fund through a debt exclusion in 28 to cover things like the uh the school roof. And then you get into 2030 and you know you're looking at potentially $150 million for a new school. Um that would be through a debt exclusion. So that'll be presented on Monday night uh to the select board.

Excellent. I saw that uh you started the education series for the different departments. A sign up.

Yes. So, Citizens Academy will begin on April 1st. Um, I I think as of this afternoon, we actually may be full already, but I would encourage um if anyone's interested to still sign up and we'll we'll kind of keep I was going to ask if we can sit in necessarily. I don't want to take somebody else's spot because to learn if there's additional seats, yes, but in some of the places we only have room for

20 or 25 because we're going to do some at the police department. We're going to do some at some of the rooms in the library, the COA. Um, so if there's room, definitely not opposed.

I'm assuming they'll be recorded.

No, we are not recording these. No, we we want to be able to give an intimate experience for people um for people to be able to speak kind of freely, ask questions, and so um in speaking with other town uh managers, administrators that have done this, almost all of them have said recommended not recording this. Um they think that the group the class gets more out of it because they

feel the ability to kind of speak more freely um knowing they're not being recorded.

Okay.

Dear question in regards to this schedule potential debt schedule you called it.

So the recommended debt schedule for 27 includes some things that you're excluding.

No no no exclusions in 27. It's all enterprise funded um debt in 27.

Okay. And then you read off like the new school and a few other things. Did I hear? And isn't that kind of the conversation that we were just having regarding overrides?

That's just a debt exclusion though.

That's not But it's a So, so and again I'm new here, right? So when I say override, you say debt exclusion and it's the same thing.

No. No. Okay. Okay. Could you So debt debt an override allows us to fund operational expenses. So that the school's budget, the police officers, reoccurring um expenses, right?

And and and you tax that through that's that's indefinite. So if we got a $5 million override, next year it's 5 million plus 2 and a half%.

Right.

Debt exclusion is uh a vote to temporarily pay the debt on a specific project until it's paid off.

Okay. But you're asking the voters to go to the polls for both of those if that's if the town chose if the town chose that. Yes.

So my point is as we educate and plan and get everything and people to understand an override if the town of Dartmouth is using this language because it's different. If the town of Dartmouth is using override to override operating budgets and debt exclusions to put buildings in debt that capitalized for 20 or 30 years, you're still going to the polls on both. and if you put them

together in some manner and had a ballot question or not. But this is the kind of thinking that you're going to have to be doing to incorporate both of these because the general fund is never going to have enough money to operate unless you override that tax base and then you're going to exclude raising taxes to fund your building projects. So we're we're going to voters a lot here is my point.

My question is does debt occlusion go to or yeah debt exclusion does that go to the polls or does that go to town meetings?

Goes to both.

It goes to the polls. It all goes to the polls.

So what happens with a debt exclusion is uh authorization to borrow or something that town meeting has to approve. I see.

And then uh the voters have to approve the the essential the exclusion of the debt allow us to tax beyond what we're able to tax for that specific project.

And then you have to build that within your town. If you you've got to build that within your spring meeting and your fall, I'm sorry, your June meeting and your fall meeting for the elections. If not, you've got to schedule additional special elections for each override or each debt exclusion at the polls.

All of it. All these engineering studies that are being done, all your water needs, the $5 million Well, water sewer would not would not be excluded debt. So, it would be rate funded.

It's rate funded. Okay.

It's rate funded. How much is I mean the the deferred capital items facing Dartmouth are so significant in my opinion and I I just kind of go like this is which I I get so excited here. I get so excited here. The $350,000 if I understand if he's not charging expenses to fund the kindergarten throw it at the operating budget but that's a structural for the following year. But maybe we'll figure it out by then. I

think Carrie Carrie mentioned what what's the solution, right?

Oh, sorry.

What is the solution? I can give you a solution for this year if there's a commitment to go for an override next year, right? You use those onetime funds.

That's what I'd like to hear.

As long as you recognize the community must recognize those funds aren't going to solve even those funds are not enough to solve the issue.

I would he he has almost three million in school choice.

He has almost 3 million in school choice plus 367. Um, you know, again, then we go for the override next year.

That is the solution. That's a but but if the override doesn't pass in 28 yeah the select board has but it gives you time to plan to for for that for us right that's to point solution no to Terry's point I appreciate that you can't you cannot there's no way you get an override successful one before the voters this year it's March so it's obviously not getting on the ballot in

April so you hold you essentially if you did it this year you'd have to present two budgets to town meeting. Town meeting would have to approve both budgets. One would be a whatif budget.

One would be if the one would be override passes, this is our budget.

Override doesn't pass, this is our budget. Then you do a special election and and you so it's unlikely that happens. So you go maybe to 28, right?

And and you have some more time. You maybe the select board if they want if they want to entertain this, put together an override study committee, right? You do those things. Again, keep in mind I just said we have a lot of debt. We know we need a high school roof. Memorial Stadium has been a priority for the schools. We're We must do a new school in the 2030 range to replace the middle school. Whether that

ends up being an actual middle school or a high school, you know, we need to go through that process. But but you, most of you are on that tour. We need a new school. That's probably our portionund at least 100 million, probably closer to 150 if it's a high school.

So now you're talking a debt exclusion on the ballot in 28 and an operational override on the ballot in 28. And if you do the the do research on that, it's it's probably less than 15% that that they pass.

I just sent you guys where I found the 58%. It's an actual article. It was like, you know, here's another solution.

Excuse me, dear Patrick.

Thank you. I just I just think that if we do I mean it's it's great to kind of solve it in that way um but then say that the override fails. I mean like I was in high school in 2006 2007 when we had we went for an override and you know I was like I remember like we need to get this and it failed and we lost teachers like teachers we loved and it

was like really heartbreaking in a way.

Um and then not only we lose that now we've lost all the the balance of the school choice funds and it's it's a tough thing and in meeting with the um senior center last year I know we haven't had them in yet this year but the the town's population is aging. You have a lot of seniors that one don't have children in the schools and two they have they're on a fixed income. So

they already some of them can't afford their taxes as it is and then you go for an override they might not outwardly say we're voting no but they're going to go to the polls and they are all going to be going to the polls. Keep in mind that 70% of the people in town don't have anything to do with the schools.

I don't think that's true.

It is true. 30% of the 30% and some percent have children that are in school. The remainder of the town doesn't.

I just think it's going to be a big education battle to get it out there.

And we also have Can I just ask are you town meeting members, people in the audience? So, we also have lots of open town meeting slots. And the more that people get involved, the more the word spreads. And I and I'm optimistic that that could happen. So, um, the the argument has to be made that when I'm old and I need somebody to take care of me. I want the person to be kind

and and well educated. You know, we need to say that I'm old already, but not that old.

1862.

Yeah. I think I think that we have to figure out what the arguments are. And I know I used to work at Matapoet. had a uh council on aging or a senior connection with the chorus with the elementary school chorus and they did a performance every year and it was a great way to keep um seniors educated on what was going on in schools. So maybe we need to do more of that.

Yes. A potential thing to potentially look at for a solution. I mentioned the kindergarten money. If he's not charging salaries there, it's still going to be a little structural, but it's a short term if we're really talking the kind of schedule that you're looking at. Um, another thing to look at, and I I'm I'm gonna just throw this out there. At the end of June 30th, like we were talking

to Jim, what do we do with end of the year money is at the end of June 30th, the free cash, that is X number of dollars, call it 5 something last year, $5.5 million was made up of June 30th money unused.

There's valid valid valid valid valid reasons for a lot of that. But is there anything in there that we could possibly say, "Yeah, we rolled it again. We raised and appropriated it for the same reason, but we're having a hard time filling this need."

Let me be specific.

the police department residual salaries because we are unable to fund I'm sorry unable to hire our police department officers based on the conversation that we had with the chief we're civil service 15 miles we don't like the the pool so we want to make sure that we have our officers in place he can't find them and he's more than willing to tell you that he's turning back hundreds of

thousands of dollars each and every year so he wanted to do the study. So, if and I know someone's going to say we can't do it. However, if we took at least some of that money and did the study, we would stop raising and appropriating salaries that we can't fill.

If we could figure out how to take it out of FY27 somehow and move it somewhere so that we could free up that money to give to the schools along with this 300, it could give a little bit of room. So all I'm asking is if any of the residual monies in June 30th that we continue to raise and appropriate for the same reason might be able to be shifted around a

little bit in a short term versus taking out the school choice which is a massive massive no a massive issue if that override fails in this particular accounting transaction kind of movement around that would work.

May I shorten your question? Sorry.

You want to spend our free cash for the schools?

No. Let me no before it turns into free cash from before it turns to free reallocate. So reduce for instance the police department budget to put it into the schools in in in the what you're saying with it reoccurring turnbacks in the police in particular. It's accurate.

However, what I'll say is we're we're actively trying to recruit because what I'm hearing directly from the the Brotherhood Union is um some of them are going to start looking for jobs elsewhere because they're being forced to work non-stop and and it's a different generation um not just the police officers but in a lot of people where people don't want to work doubles five six days a week. Absolutely. That was

what what used to happen with with police, firemen. That was very common.

that's not people value work life balance now. Um and so taking the ability away to then fill those positions actually could get us in a bigger hole where now we have even more positions. You heard uh Mr. Kylie mentioned the third largest community by mass. I know I don't want to have an emergency at Round Hill and the police officer responding is up in the north park and has to come from the north park.

I agree. I live there. So there's there's very right these are all and this is why when Nate talked about you know the that's why it's our job to consider everything because we know that everyone has um specific concerns but we have to be acutely aware of all of the concerns in just a follow up I'm not suggesting that we Jitter I'm talking oh another um downside of taking the money

that way is that the only way this town budgets for capital is at the turn backs. We don't have a capital reserve.

So, we pay for our capital with that money. And I understand why Jim said they don't turn it back cuz they have to they have different bills to pay. But that's how so if we take that money, how are we going to pay for capital?

Could we get a forecast at what we might be looking at as far as residual monies available this June 30th that would turn into free gas before we go to town meeting?

Absolutely, 100%. Thank you, Dedra. I don't think that the town needs Thank you very much.

I don't think that it can automatically be moved. No, it's I think the town needs to be aware if there's zero in free cash at the end of the budget, the town needs to be aware of that and that's why the schools aren't getting Well, we always have free cash. We have to have free cash.

Well, the town needs to be aware how much their money if their taxes certified.

One minute. So, I just want to clarify Gary and I aren't the bad guys here. I'm just saying like we need to be I understand people have passion and I respect the passion. Um, but and if you want us to tell you that you can afford this budget, I'll do it. But then what'll happen is is we'll be Whitman Hansen next year at this time. And so, you know, we're being realistic of what

the town can afford. Um, can we we always provide free cash numbers always provided to we have a capital planning committee that's reviewed. As soon as we get the free cash number, it's provided to this group.

Free cash calculation is much more difficult than it should be. I have this Gary, myself and Donna had this conversation because you would think it is just excess revenue um excess funds that weren't expended. That's what's free cashes, right? That that's what it sounds like.

You have a bunch of parents out front. I think transparency of what is available is really important. They need to understand or else you're going to have people picketing out front saying it's happened a couple years.

So I guess where are we not being transparent in what's available? I think nobody sees the transparent budget yet.

Like it's I don't think I think the issue is nobody understands nobody understands it how the budget works.

So I'm open to the suggestions. I think one of the things Gary and I have have really done a a tremendous amount of work on is transparency in this town.

So, with all due respect, that actually bothers me personally because we've spent a lot of time working on that. And so, I'm open to ideas transparency and more understanding because I think over time you you figure these things out, but when you first start, you know, you grasp its straws. I don't think that money that that's budgeted in one department can be spent absolutely not

by the school unless it goes through a process. Mhm.

Also keep in mind when we certify free cash every year, we typically ser if we average that out, it's about $5.5 million in free cash. Over the last five or six years, the contribution to the schools has been somewhere around 2 million, 2.5 million for capital projects that they needed. I mean, they need way more than $2.5 million for short-term capital projects.

So every time we start that capital review every single year and now it's being televised actually the first thing I educate the committee on is how much available free cash there is. And when we go to town meeting it's also printed in the warrant. You'll see the reserves.

You'll see the So I get that maybe people don't understand the word free cash because it's a it's a misdemeanor in a lot of places and people not understanding what free cash is. But also keep in mind that this committee has a policy to not use free cash for one-time operations.

So, so how did you calculate the three and a half%.

Can you let the town know how you calculate the three and a half?

It's 3.94% is what we 3.94. How you come up with that?

Sure. We we we you have an idea. It's around 113 million is what we're estimating our revenues to be.

What I'll say is, and you brought up a good point, Carrie, you know, the town historically has given been able to give a little bit more for the schools maybe than this year. Yeah.

The reason for that is the town has been through Gary and even with Gary's predecessor, Greg, very conservative with revenues.

We've lost all of that flexibility because like Brian said, right, you get two and a half%. We've been above that.

That money has to come from somewhere.

So, we've slowly dug into our conserviveness for revenues where where we are now at a point where we cannot there is no more kind of conservancy to dig into. So, that's where that comes from. So you you have your and it's it's it's pretty straightforward. You take your tax levy, which is prior years tax, 2 and a.5% new growth. New growth is on a steady decline, right? So So that's

another concern. We were over a million dollars three years ago. We'll be lucky if we get 600,000 this year. So that you add that, you add your local receipts.

Local receipts, Gary and I review local receipts every month. We're concerned.

We're concerned. We should meet this year, but we're not able to increase for 27 like we have had in the past. big part of it is motor vehicles, right?

People aren't buying new cars.

You're seeing it, but there's not as many new cars on the road. The impact of that is motor vehicle excise isn't as as good as it is because the value as your car ages out, you don't pay as much in motor vehicle excise. That's a direct hit on us. Um, and then we're also watching the economy.

People don't necessarily go out to eat as much, right? When the economy slows down, that directly affects our low our meal stacks. So, we're not seeing the growth there. So that's we come up with that 113 roughly investment income is another piece of it. So interest rates are 5%. We're now now we're down out of 3.9%. So there's a lot of factors that are going the other way. And I think

that what's mentioned Cody mentioned is the reason why we we're having this conversation now and not 3 years ago is because we were able to be conservative to a point where we've kind of got along got along. I mean we're not it's not perfect. I mean, yeah, the schools are are, you know, at at a level right now that they need a little bit more, but there's comm community there's communities that have been out there

three years ago that have tempted overrides that have had made massive cuts.

And so, you know, we continue the conversation with the schools. This is not I mean, tonight's not the end of it.

Obviously, this is just maybe the beginning of another, you know, way we can maybe hybrid this.

Maybe we can try to meet some some needs that they that they have. Not saying that we can fulfill everything, but um when we get revenue numbers each and every month, Cody and I review those. We look over them. We look at to see what any additional new revenues that the state's coming in with state aid. So these numbers can be adjusted, but you know, the 7% is a is is that's a big number.

That's a large number. And it's not saying that it's not needed, but it it is a large number to to to to to absorb in in in the kind of atmosphere that we're in uh budgetarily.

But can we are we still meeting with Jim? Are we still meeting with the schools? Absolutely. That's that is not something that that's not going that's not off the table. I mean, we're still I have a feeling and this budget cycle we're going to be right to the end, you know, discussing the budget and getting a final budget.

So, always been the case.

One other point I'd like to bring out and we keep talking about a 2 and a half% budget override.

It's 2.8 million bucks.

I know.

I know.

It ain't enough. Um, that's assuming you get it.

No, I just trying to be transparent for the town to hear.

Well, questions that the town will ask.

I I think the town has to has a big job, but you can also put the value of money override for 15.

Let me just go back. I think the town has a big job uh where it has to transparent is not the right word, but it has to explain the budget to people in town. Maybe it starts with town meeting members and how the thing works and then what the realities are with the with the both budget non-school plus school growing at the rate they're growing and how we're not going to get relief

from the state. If anything, it's going to go down because of inflation, right?

Um so we're on our own and what that means we have to start looking at cutting costs. I don't know what that means. uh we have to look at uh increasing revenue and we have to look at um other things and we have to actually like work through them and hopefully mitigate that 3.3 every year.

I mean the finance committee has done a great job with the letter that they send out. I think a lot of these items that we're talking about tonight and you know the schools being a big part of this we've addressed in that letter over the years and not just last year you know last four or five years. So, I think it's getting that message out and continuing that message that really

starts to hit home, especially the town meeting members because they're the ones ultimately that are going to put these to a vote. They're going to put, you know, a debt exclusion to a vote.

They're going to put an override to a vote. So, it's important that the town meeting members get to, you know, digest all this and it's I hope that when they get this letter, they're reading it because there's a lot of it. We spend a lot of time on it. There's a lot of good information in there and it's really deal information. This stuff is from this is statistical. This is stuff that

we're not make, you know, the committee is not making up. These are these are items that are really affecting, you know, day-to-day residents and how they how they're obtaining services.

All my data comes from Department of Revenue uh and also uh Department of Local Services. And we always make sure our data is good.

The last thing you want is some bad piece because your credibility goes right down the toilet.

So, I mean, I I think the issue is we've got to figure out how to mitigate those those increases.

Well, we have a budget advisory group meeting coming up. Brian, I hope you're there.

I'm going to be there.

Good. So, we'll talk more about it then.

Deardra, is it One last question.

Are the promises promises?

I know. I heard this four times already.

Don't let Don't let them stop you.

One last question. Uh the contract negotiations for with bargaining units, is that done or do you anticipate that being done? Those are not done. Um I it's hard to say. I mean you you you've been involved in negotiations.

It's sometimes quick. Sometimes they're not.

I ask is because there potentially could be some residual monies there with the monies that you have.

Residual likely.

I know. But I'm hoping I had to say it out loud.

Resid I I hope. Um, and in the free cash discussion I get, I'm just looking at that police salary nut as you understand what I'm trying to do in my head.

Thank you very much. That's the last thing I'll say tonight.

Can we move on the agenda because it's, you know, 6:55.

Yes.

Oh, oh, sorry.

Um, on the citizens academy we started talking about before we came back around to what we were talking about before.

Um, I've heard a lot of good feedback in the community about it. A lot of people are excited. Um, so I'm hoping it's sort of just like a pilot program and we're going to continue that on a cycle.

Yeah. If there's success, we'll, you know, we'll continue to do it.

Yeah.

What What is is that the how town government works?

Yeah. Yeah. We're going to do it's um I think nine nine courses, eight or nine courses Wednesday evenings and it and department heads will come in provide that information and a pre-Town meeting.

Yep. We're going to do a pre-town meeting where everybody actually that's really everybody town meeting members go.

I'll be I'll be there.

I wonder how you wonder if you could do that. How would you do that? express word.

You don't take a vote before we You don't take a vote. They you just say to listen and ask.

Oh, no. I understand that. But I mean to get them to go so they understand what's going A lunch in the cafeteria.

That's what I mean. I don't I don't know really, but I've seen some people get the word out and get people there. And some towns have a zero quorum and that is not a happy place to be because the people come in who represent their their wants or needs. And we have representative town meeting. We could have a an opportunity for a lot of information out there.

And how many members in total? 400 340 in the population is there's there's 340 seats open. The total population is a little less than 34,000. So 10% representative government approximately. Yeah.

And it's filled county members. No, that's open. That's total seats 340.

It's important to do it.

No.

Right.

That seems high.

More. I think the more members Oh, 10% and about 190 show up.

Same thing with voters. We have like 10% of the people who are registered voting with this kind of need. And on a good election day.

On a good election day.

Well, yeah. on a presidential election, but I mean on a regular local election, it can be much lower, unfortunately. Can we move on anyway, please? Because we can't solve everything right now.

Thank you.

Um, liazison reports.

I just have to a shout out to DPW just because Snowageddon was absolutely insane.

They were everywhere. They were sleeping.

just really shout out to the department and thank them for everything that they do for us.

Absolutely.

And we should think of them when we think about how, you know, oh, just move some money from this department to that department. Do we really want to take it from DPW?

No, we don't. But us against them either.

I think the idea of a water advisory group is all departments are good.

Yeah, we want to fund all the departments.

Really, all the departments are of equal importance. We don't have any minutes, right?

No minutes to approve. So, uh, on the next, uh, next couple things coming up, I sent them the memo out for CPC.

They'll be reviewing their, uh, uh, items, uh, on the, uh, March 10th meeting at 6:30 p.m.

Uh, and, um, you I sent that to you. And also on um 3:23 is our next meeting. Uh, we'll be continuing the budget discussion. I'll leave that on there.

Uh, that's Monday. Uh, no, wait a minute. Let's see.

Yeah, 3:23 is the Monday.

312 312 312 sounds right.

Yeah. 312 in the um next coming to the meeting on Monday, right?

312 312 long long range.

Oh, just long range. I thought that was the joint uh finance select board. Okay.

So at So 3 the 323 is the uh uh meeting with the select board and uh the school committee. Uh we're inviting members of the um I'm not going to post it as a meeting, but we're inviting members of the finance committee to to to join uh if they'd like to to listen um you know ask questions if they like, but I'm not going to post it as a meeting.

So um he does a great job at that meeting taking place.

It's not a joint meeting.

No, it's a joint meeting with select board and school.

Is it here or is it at the high school?

So and uh one of the last things uh capital is wrapping up.

Oh, sorry. I'm sorry. On that subject, um finance committee has been included on those joint meetings. reason why that was dropped?

Uh well the re the reason um primarily John comes from the um what I was advised is that the school committee meeting on Monday the school committee said and I'm summarizing here uh essentially that they weren't going to move on their budget unless the select board advised them that they needed to.

So, we're trying to This is something we typically would do a little bit later in the process, but um given I think in the past there's been some willingness from the school committee to to work within what the town can afford. Um and and they want to hear directly from the select board this year. We're moving that up and we still intend on doing a full joint meeting because I can't say the joint meeting was that

particular topic, but we've had Yeah. Y joint meetings or all three committees have keep in mind we're a month early so that meeting doesn't really happen until April.

Yeah, we'll still look to probably do some sort of kind of end of budget um culmination meeting with everyone but this is more of we need to we need to be earlier in the process given the events that we're dealing with. Mhm. So, um, one of couple last, uh, things, uh, capitalists met on with the majority of the departments today. We met with, uh, DPW. Um, we'll be meeting to close up the, uh, departments with Harbor,

Library, DCTV, parks and wreck. They will then look at the, um, master capital plan. That will be and those those are being taped. So, you can see those on DCTV. We'll wrap that up in about couple two more meetings. So then they'll make their their presentation for what they uh want for the article or what they're recommending for the article. So um besides that our next meeting on 312 I will leave the um uh

budget presentation I'm budget the budget discussion on here. Uh we can potentially look at there's been really no changes minimal changes other than us removing the um facilities uh position uh as far as the town is concerned. So, we're continuing discussion with the schools as we mentioned. Uh, and um, we still have we still should have the meeting on the You're keeping up a great pace here, you guys.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

You know, we don't anticipate seeing a schedule A for several weeks, right? The schedule A draft budget will probably be in a few in I would say beginning I have a schedule for um, end of March, beginning of April as a draft.

Just curious.

So, okay.

We are still working through health insurance. You know, we we got 8% I know you have some outstanding numbers. We're actually scheduling the meeting of the HISC next next the 12th, right? Next th whatever. Yeah. Yeah. Next week. Um the HISC which is the health insurance steering committee the the select board put together um to review some high level options um which is promising and

may give us a little bit of relief.

And I'd like the the committee to start thinking about the letter the town meeting um beginning of April. a chill thinking about because I think that you know we we did it early last year but this is even better because we have a little bit ahead of um just to start thinking about format and things like that at the beginning of April. I have been thinking about it. Of course, right about now

it's about 50 pages. I think I got to think a little less.

When are warrant articles due?

Zoning warrant articles were already due. Um, general warrant articles are due at the end of the month.

And that's all I have, Madam Chair.

Thanks.

Are we good?

Yes.

No dissertations, please, about solving the budget. Okay, good. Um, does somebody want to make a motion to adjurnn?

So move.

Second. Second. We are officially all in favor I officially adjourned.