Finance Committee Meeting November 13, 2025

I call the finance committee meeting of November 13th to order at 5:00.

Uh please note that this meeting is in person and it's being recorded. And please stand and join me for the pledge of allegiance.

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Thank you.

So Gary already has the budget calendar.

Yes. So um thank you madam chair and uh pass it on the first um item I don't know if you wanted to introduce new member the I think she knows everybody but to the massive listening audience that we have we have a new member here on the finance committee Deardra Farrell Welch. Did I say that right?

Yes you did. Thank you.

Um and I'm excited personally because we actually now have nine members.

Wonderful. though some of them aren't here tonight. I was looking forward to having a full house, but I understand people's schedules. But anyway, welcome.

Thank you very much. Nice to meet everyone.

Nice to meet you.

Okay, so uh as we start um the uh FY27 budget process, uh I put out the uh budget calendar uh every year and this kind of um gets us on the path of where we where we should be uh as far as timeline is concerned. the um we're actually starting a month earlier than we did last year. Every one of these dates last year and we still had time at

the end if you remember the uh committee we had time to still talk about the um ration and and the letter that went out to town meeting uh town meeting members.

So this gives us my hope is at the end uh of the process to um do that and maybe more because remember in this process here which is not up on the screen and in the calendar you have we also have to incorporate the budget advisory group somewhere in here. So this is our the finance committee's budget calendar but at some point in time we're going to have to engage with

them to uh talk about where we are in the budget process and what we think or the committee thinks is going to get proposed to town meeting. So, I would envision that's probably going to be the February time frame uh in this calendar, but uh members have been picked on that committee. So, that's really that's all set up, ready to go. Uh so, I'll go through it quickly. November 20th, um I

will send out the um uh memo and CIPC memo to department heads. I did meet with the chair of the CIPC mentioned to him that uh this year we should be uh broadcasting those meetings. Uh also having the minutes um documented so that they can be reviewed online. Uh we're going to um he he um he agreed to that.

We'll you know we'll start that process and when we meet with him uh December 2nd I'll be sending uh the December 26th, excuse me, the budget um request and CPC requests will be due back to my office so we can start keying those in.

CPC is that the capital capital improvement planning committee.

Thank you very much.

CIPC. Yes. Yep. Uh and then January 5th to 6th uh to the uh January 16, 2026, uh we'll have the one-on ones in my office as as we've done in the past. Uh we'll invite finance committee members to go.

Um I have a schedule for that already.

So once those budgets are keyed in to Munus, uh we'll have that that set up.

So that's the 5th through the 16th of January.

uh February 4th, 11th, 18th and 25th, CIPC will be uh meeting uh to go over the departmental requests with the departments uh you know schools, DPW, parks um so on. Uh February 5th through uh the 26th, finance committee will review the budget forms. That's the one form the one forms that we have uh to go over and any any information that's needed, we can invite departments in at

that time to to review their budgets. Uh and then February 27th uh warrant articles are due to the town clerk. Uh March 5th, 12th, 19th and 26, uh departmental the bigger departments will be able to come in to the um uh fincom schools DPW and police. We usually have separate meetings for them, one night for each one of those because they're larger departments. and then uh April 3rd the draft budget to the

committee for review and 96 April 9th 16 23rd finance committee warrant ration and the budget message. So as you can see we're still quite a ways away from uh town meeting but I think we we need that gap uh just to potentially uh you know get all the information ready for uh uh town meeting and and so on so forth. uh between February and May, we would engage with uh uh the budget

advisory group to discuss findings and make and have them maybe recommend make recommendations to the finance committee on the select board. So that'll be fit in between one of these seeing how the progress is made once we get to that point.

What uh did you change from last year?

Not specifically so much, but as far as the deadlines, I mean, are you sending out the uh budget memo earlier? So the budget memo went out earlier and the request back from the departments was actually in January at the end of January.

Oh, okay.

So this is a little bit Yeah, this is a little bit more aggressive.

Um but I think that what I don't and I think last year was a pretty good test of this. We had those um the one forms that the departments filled out. I thought that they did a pretty a pretty good job on that. They did a better job than they did in 25. Um there was still some departments that were you know needed some work but um this gives us

room at the end to and and maybe in the middle to invite budget advisory group uh you know for recommendations and I think that you know the earlier we can start this the better.

Yes, of course.

John, Gary, uh we're using the same format.

We're requesting um the budgets on our new format. So that's not changing.

No. Um these dates are um had dates so we can put in our calendars those February dates that we're meeting.

Yes.

And uh so that's February 4, 11, 18, and 25 and no 26.

It's the I'm sorry. 512 29. Yep, I got it.

And then April 3rd is a meeting for us. We're going to review.

Am I correct?

Correct. Yeah.

Um, and let me just go to the calendar.

And then the 9th, 16th, and 23rd. So, okay.

Yeah. Let me just date. That's going to be the 19th, right? Not the 29th.

Uh, 52.

There is a typo on there.

1926.

26th. Yeah.

Where's the typo?

It's on all the Thursdays.

Yep.

Right. Right. Yep.

So, we're going to start our meetings when? February.

Yes.

Okay. Well, we we probably will have to meet before that because this, you know, we've got a lot going on with other items that the committee's requested.

Uh, and we'll go through some of those in the agenda here. So, you know, yeah, but this is something I can right at least those are hard dates.

All right. Try to reserve those dates. Y All right. That's excellent.

Does anybody have any questions on the calendar?

So, I like to know the date. I know I'm asking way ahead that the town clerk has the hard date for getting her information from us.

Um, okay. So, usually the articles are due way before the budget's due, right?

Uh, I can get that date from from the clerk. Usually it's for our letter. If we're going to go through three weeks prior to her printing, if we're going to go through the same process that we've done the last couple years where we mail our own letter, it'd be good to understand exactly when we need to have the letter done so we can Yeah. Historically, it's been a good three weeks prior to her even wanting

even mailing out the documents to town meeting members.

Her the drop dead date to when we get that information to them.

Yeah.

Um email the group. Dearra, for your knowledge, I mean, yes, there's a packet that goes out to town meeting members and years past, we were all in one packet together where the finance committee wrote a letter to town meeting and it was in that packet. But we made a decision maybe two years ago to have the letter be separate. So, if you've ever been to a town meeting, you understand

sometimes the packets aren't opened quickly. Am I saying that nicely? Um, sometimes they open them as they're coming in. Um, this way if our letter was separate, it gave it more emphasis.

So, ideally they're opening it and reading it before they get the packet from town meeting.

And how many town meeting members are there in full?

200 something.

Almost 300. Just under full. We'll let that's if it's full, but I know we're not full.

We get 180 maybe at town meeting. I wrote it down.

We always have a quorum anyway. Thank you.

Well, we can't have the meeting unless we have a quorum, but usually at the town meetings, you know, sometimes it runs a little late getting the quorum, but anyway, we just want our letter to have more of an emphasis so it's open and it's just goes to town meeting members.

Thank you.

So, I'll get that the drop dead date and I'll mail that out to everybody so that Yes, it's just good to know because you know that letter is not an easy task.

No, it's not.

There's a lot of information that we put a lot of graphs and such in it. So, wonderful. takes a lot of work. Um, okay. Excellent.

And that is all I have for that. Um, all right.

All right. That's that one.

Yide for now.

Finance committee handbook. Um, yes.

Gary, you want me? Can I have the plug?

Because that reaches over here.

Oh, yeah.

I need to plug that into Good. It's grown. It's gotten longer.

Yeah.

I don't want you to have to edit, Gary.

I'm not that cruel.

I thought you had a problem. Is that a Oh, that's a Mac. I thought there was a problem last time.

There was a problem with the Max.

Yeah. though. Carrie got hers to work last time, but this should work.

Signal.

You got the little remote to switch through the Yeah.

HDMI things, though. Gary's just on He was on a PC.

See?

Oh, it's changing on it.

Oh, it changes by itself. Okay. Yay.

Why does it say off?

Doesn't like my name.

You want You want me to give you this laptop, J? If you want laptop, it should work.

That should work. I should be in that should be in sync with the screen.

I only say that it should work because I've used this room for other purposes and use my laptop.

Hence the reason I'm so familiar with the screen. Oh, you know what? Let me try this.

Let me try a different toy.

Can you try this? Just switching that again Gary please.

or try two. I don't remember what I used. HDMI 2.

I think I think it automatically it it'll automatically um pick up the signal.

Yeah. Why not?

You can use the laptop if you want. I mean, it's right up on the screen if you want.

I might just try a different plug.

So many plugs.

because I know I've configured it to this. Okay.

Is your laptop recognizing the connection change?

It's not picking up a signal. So, yeah, it's funny because I've used it as I said before. Interesting.

You if you want to edit it on this and then and then send me the and then you can just save it.

I certainly want to be able to display and edit it because otherwise it's going to be crazy.

That that side

this negative look. What is this?

Oh, yeah. Thank you. Please.

I don't need to be tortured any more than possible here.

Let's make it bigger. That's a right-handed mouse.

You're a lefty, right?

No, I choose the mouse with the right hand.

Oh, you do?

I am a left-handed for a left-handed ham.

Ambidextrous. I am ambidextrous. Let that be known to everyone in the world.

Yes, I only uh write with my left hand.

Um, okay, good. I think everybody can read it. So, you all got a copy, correct, of the handbook that Terry's been working on this project. I just want to give her the credit because she's put she put a lot of effort into the handbook draft.

Now, it's not meant to replace the official finance committee handbook that comes from the Association of Town Finance Committee members. Did I get that acronym right? Um, that's 167 pages of awesome information. And I'm sure because we have a new copy, by the way, Terry and I went to that meeting in October and a new copy was put out that was updated in October. Um, it's now on

our web page and I believe Gary sent it out to everyone as well. So, you should all be reading 167 new pages of information. So, you get all that. Um, this is intended specifically for the Dartmouth Finance Committee for just sort of our operating procedures.

Uh, not going to be 167 pages.

Uh, if I may, we did have some of them presented to us last I think. Okay. Uh, I haven't compared the two of them.

There there was only one discrepancy about attendance as far as the meetings go. Uh on page 8, one says 75 and one says 85%.

Well, that's was issued by the town of Dartmouth and and Cody and his his group specifically for um elected members and town employees and everyone but the finance committee because we are appointed separately.

Okay.

It's not to say that it's not information that we shouldn't abide by.

I'm just saying that that handbook was specific to other people in town.

Yeah. I was just looking. That was one discrepancy. I I didn't see too many others besides that. It's the only discrepancy that I found in in that.

Yeah, that's correct.

Okay.

One was 85, one was 75.

Okay. I would probably take that up with who who's the master of this? Cody on the um attendance.

No. Oh, no. On the actual handbook, I think it was Chris. Oh, okay. Yeah, it was it was Chris. We can follow up with We got this. Remember that meeting we had with Melissa?

Oh, we went to we went to the meeting, but yeah. Yeah, we got this from her. And then we have another again the 167 page version we have here.

Well, the 167 page version is from the MMA and the association. That's our mantra.

All right. So that's the Bible, if you will. Okay.

Yes. Absolutely. That that's for everybody in Massachusetts.

Okay.

Yeah. Oh, no. It's official.

All right. I'm saying there's differences. Okay. That's So this is not going to be anywhere near that. I think right now it's four pages.

that it maybe five when we're done adding you know components to it but specifically to how we as a committee in Dartmouth operate. It's not going to have you know we're not going to try to be repetitive of other information that's available. We're certainly not trying to condense the 167page document.

Um and we're not trying to compete whatever with the document for the town employees and elected folks. Mhm.

Um this is specifically for us. Um and I think if you read through the draft, you might realize that it is specific to us when we meet, you know, what our roles are, that type of thing. That's that was the intent when it was first initiated.

Um so, as anybody knows, when I get my hands on a written document, you know, I immediately start editing. Um but I didn't I added to it more than anything else. So, the first couple paragraphs I added to it because I feel like a document should have an introduction.

Um, and once again, this is for everybody. Just because I put it there doesn't make it so.

I I need your input on this and obviously Terry is going to continue to work on this document as well. And I sent her this copy already so she could see um just what my notes were at this point. So, I figured that it was good to have some sort of introduction that said, "This handbook is intended as a guide for Dartmouth Finance Committee members. It includes brief descriptions of meeting procedures, roles, and

important state statutes that govern the conduct of committee members and should prove useful to both new and current members.

You know, as someone who do I raise my hand? I'm sorry.

It's okay. Please." Um, as someone who who moved in four years ago, but has a 20-year background in municipal, school, regional, this is so important to target exactly how the governing structure of of Dartmouth is because it can be quite different uh municipality to municipality and that 167 pages has to cover everything. So, you can kind of look to see how it applies to you. So when I saw this, it was very very

helpful to me to get my numbers in organizational structure. So I really appreciate the the information and the time it took to put together.

Good. Um, anybody have anything in regards to the introduction section that they feel should be different or added?

Right. So, the other paragraph that I added um before we get to the content that that Terry started with was the application procedure. Um I like I'm sure Terry did as well. I looked at a lot of other handbooks that folks have.

Um some were specific to finance committees, not discounting the official one for the state, but and some were uh specific to sort of town members. Um, but I think it's important if someone were to look at this document to understand how they would apply for an open committee position.

We don't tend to do anything about it until we have an opening.

If somebody's poking around and looking at the finance committee, here's a document that explains that, you know, anyone can apply for membership for an open committee position and this is what you do. We know that the town moderator is the appointing authority. Um residents who are interested in being considered should submit a letter of interest and resume to the town moderator and going to

insert the email address here that's appropriate. Um the appointing authority shall have sole discretion to make such appointments or other changes as the appointing authority deems to be in best interest of the town. Um, applicants are encouraged to attend one or more finance committee meetings or watch meeting recordings on the Dartmouth Community Media YouTube channel. There's a link to

become familiar with the time commitment and other functions of the committee.

Yes.

Okay. Yeah.

Why shouldn't they be able to apply? We are they can apply anytime they want it.

We're not guaranteed we're going to get reappointed.

True.

So why not why shouldn't Melissa have a backlog of people who may be interested in serving that she may want to replace one of us.

Uh there's already somebody in line when an open seat comes up and so I think we should eliminate open somebody at any time.

Good.

No, that's a good suggestion. Mhm.

The only other thing I would add is after the appointing authority shall have sole discretion, I would just say has sole discretion because like we we're not dictating, you know, what authority she has.

We're just stating what our town charter says, you know.

Okay.

Okay, that's good.

and mold that over. Obviously, it's not necessary. This is not the final copy by any means. Um, then we get into um the other part that you've already seen and I just I added some things. So, there's a section for roles and responsibilities of finance committee. Um there's a paragraph general participation expectations. So I you can see the color coding. So anything that's it's sort of a dirty yellow is my

comments. Anything that's green um was pointed out as a something that should be discussed for sure. So, finance committee members are expected to maintain at least 85% attendance consistent with other appointed committees. So, I know that that's um was questioned by some people.

So, I'll explain why it was put in there and then we can decide if we want it to be that way or if we want it to be something different. So, this was the figure that's used by um the select board I believe in the document that Bill used um for committees that they appoint.

That's their expectation for appointed committees. So, it's it's in that document, that handbook.

And it was also brought up when we had the town moderator at our meeting in the summer. Um she mentioned what her expectations were for attendance. So, that's the reason why that says 85% attendance. I understand the concern about who's taking attendance, who's checking on us, you know, that kind of concern. Um, does anybody have And yes, it is a concern that people attend obviously on a regular basis. Um,

but do you have a different way that you would consider wording it or does that not concern you? Thoughts, John? Um I thought the number for other committees not that we can't be 85 was 75%.

It is ahead.

It is.

It is.

Okay.

But we stay consistent with other play that's not consistent.

Okay. If that's true I Yeah.

Others are 75.

Well are we happy with it being 75.

Well let me may I ask you a question if I may? I mean interrupt you John.

How many meetings Gary do we actually have a year? Would say the cost of the year?

Yeah. Uh well more obviously during budget season but we've we've over the last year or two we've had more meetings I think than the past years you know looking at that. So I would say probably 20 plus oh more probably more than I'd have to count. I honestly don't know.

Yeah. If you're looking at calendar year probably over 20 25 30 meetings.

I would I would say probably over 30.

Yeah.

I would say cuz we usually have what maybe a couple months off or something.

Yeah. And then we're meeting January through I think we meet at least nine months out of a year and then with four times within I say probably somewhere in the 30s we probably we made an effort this year to have a couple during the summer months where we might normally not have any.

Yeah. So because we have things we wanted to discuss or some projects that we were working on at least 30. I would say at least 30.

All right.

So this isn't a mandate.

And because it's not a mandate, I think we should be consistent with other appointed boards and say if it's 75, that's as long as we agree on to say something percent. Um I just and I I I know this because I just got reappointed to the CPC this year by the select board and they held off my pointing because um it was submitted that I missed more than 25% of the U. okay,

of the meetings. And I was like, whoa, no, I'm retired. I do a bit of travel.

I'm like, yeah, I know I missed some meetings, but there's no way, you know.

So, I went back and did my own homework, and sure enough, I wasn't Well, the person doing the math only look back one year. It's a three-year appointment.

Okay?

You know, so I was getting, you know, I had a three-year appointment. and I was looking to get another three-year appointment and they only went back a year and I, you know, so the average was higher.

The chair had already told the selectman, listen, I don't care what is, you know, I want him on my board. He's important to be on the board, but it was important to me to clear my name and say no, that was an inaccurate statement.

You know, I wasn't absent 25% of the time this last year. That's, you know, uh I mean, this year I was, but not for the entire uh three years. So that's why I know that 75% because I had just looked it up that long ago.

That's right. Your public reputation was being slandered, John. Oh my goodness.

I'm surprised I didn't see that in a headline somewhere.

Yeah.

Oh, it would have been years ago reporters and I wouldn't have mind it.

You know, chronicle. I I personally think it I think staying consistent with what other expectations 75. That's fine. I agree.

70 I'm personally fine. I mean, as you know, we don't don't take a I mean, there is an attendance of sorts because it's obviously in all the minutes. It's in all the minutes who went to every meeting. And while I'm certainly not looking at it, I can't speak for others who may be looking at it.

So, I think it should say something.

No, I agree.

From my perspective, when I was interviewed from by the town moderator, um it was helpful to have that discussion. Her her question to me was here is the expectation. here is the town of do here's how often you are meeting here's the discussion that we want to have about attendance and it was very helpful for me to know about that and helpful for me to express um I'm a secondary caregiver for my mom it's my

priority but finance committee attendance is is obviously very important as well so at least the statement is there and I think that the expectation is important for a finance committee with 30 meetings or 30 plus meetings it's going to be it's it's hard during budget season in particular particular and I'm not sure how many other um committees or meetings meet that often except for you know obviously the

board and other things. So it was helpful to me and I understand the expectations. Well, it's important for us especially when we have to vote because we have to have a quorum and I get that people have schedules that come and go and people of course take vacations and such but in general now and in the past we've had members who literally disappeared. Um yeah, but now people are pretty good,

right? And also the fact that we're going to have nine people on the committee right?

We've been kind of stretched, you know, we were stretched for a while there because we were we were low for sure. I mean, we've had it was important everybody had when I joined to Janine's point that we had a quarum, especially when we have to vote because we're really not supposed to, right?

All right. So 75. Is that what we agree on?

Sure.

Oops.

consistent with occasional absences are permitted. Um Melissa is going to view this document.

She has seen the um first draft before this.

So the draft that you all saw is what Melissa saw because I know that Terry um copied her and as we go forward obviously she'll be including I mean that's that's a policy decision that she should be making. I mean, that's correct. That's what I I thought. And I I did have a quick chat with Terry earlier in the day about that because I knew it was a controversy. Um, but she

was she wanted to see what everybody else had to say because I said I, you know, it didn't bother me. I mean, I do think there's an attendance expectation.

Sure.

It's not set by me. Um, but, you know, if it's 75 for the rest of the town, then yeah, it should be consistent with that. That's, you know, good. Um anyway, I added the sentences after that says the chairperson and and this is a question of mine actually. So I think at least two people should be notified as soon as possible if members are unable to attend. Um so it's either myself and

the vice chair or myself and the director of budget and finance. Um that way the knowledge is in two people's hands. And I use my example unfortunately of the one time I took a vacation out of the country and someone here sent me a text.

Maybe me probably which, you know, I missed you.

First of all, there was the there was a six-hour time difference.

Intermittent use of my defense. You and John never told me you were traveling.

Never came by my house and said you and John be away.

I apologize. I don't usually announce those things on TV.

Um, but anyway, that it's a good habit, I think, to have it so at least two people understand who's coming to the meeting.

Um, so here's my question. Should it be chair and vice chair? Should it be chair and poor Gary?

No, I mean, I don't mind getting notified because I'll just I'll I'll then send because we don't have a meeting without you. Well, I mean, I' I'd send notice to everybody that correct so and so is not going to be able to be here. But some I mean, also emergencies come up last minute. So this Okay, there's things that are beyond, you know, everyone's control.

Yeah. No, I of course I just said that's why I said as soon as possible. That's like I get the you know, and I just said a quorum of the committee is five members must be present in order to conduct business and vote. Um, and I realize that's more for somebody who's new. Most of us know that by now.

Does it say it's a nine member committee up top?

That's a good point though.

It does.

Let's see. That's a good point. So, where should that be?

This handbook is for the nine members that constitute the Dartmouth Finance Committee or the or just right after the where it says department finance committee members and insert nine the number nine in parenthesis. This document is going to live on the website, right?

Correct.

Which shows the nine members.

It does. Yeah. No, it's Yeah, I don't think that's fine. I mean, yeah, it's a good point though.

And this is a living document anyway.

So, Right. And we're not solving it all tonight anyway.

Hoping that it's more of a work in progress for sure. Right.

Um back back to this. So my question was because I know you know state law has made it so you can have remote attendance via Zoom. Um it was a kind of a legal question actually for me. So I know we could do that now and I know that from talking to um Dartmouth TV they could do it pretty quickly to have you know somebody who wants to be on the meeting but come in via Zoom.

But I think, and I don't know if you know this or not, Gary, that you still have to have a quorum in the room.

Um, I believe so. Yes, you're correct.

I know the person I know the person leading the meeting has to be in the room.

So, I mean, doesn't necessarily have to be me, but it has to be an appointed person has to be leading the meeting, has to be present. They can't be on the Zoom.

When when votes are being taken, they're taken by um Right. Roll call.

Roll call. Right. Right. Um, so my question was then should you know that should be included in there that you know because I think that's going to stay in play now for Yeah, I think the date was extended. I'm not sure that 2020, right? But I think they're trying to make it permanent.

Yeah, there's been once again living document.

Yeah.

Is that going to be for all committees?

Because as you know, if you watch on TV on D cable TV, different boards have Zoom meetings.

I know it'll be the option.

It's an option. Yeah, I personal opinion. I'm not a fan of Zoom meetings, especially all the time. I I get it. If an occasional member wants to join in, and I've seen it when the select board, they're still able to participate, but the majority is in the room and that's fine. I get that.

I think for the purposes of this document, you know, historically at least, we've met in person.

Yes.

Um so we could state that here, you know, right? No. And I think that's a paragraph to add.

We meet in person if something comes up.

We don't have to write down on our handbook that there's an option to do hybrid or remote. But well, I just want people to understand they can with notice. But go ahead.

Uh I wonder if the board interested taking a poll of the finance committee whether we should allow uh Zoom.

Oh, allow it at all.

Well, let me throw It's at our discretion whether we do, of course, or we don't. I'm not a fan of it at all.

And I've been on no both sides of the fence. I've seen it.

You know, I've been And what I like about inerson meetings that you can't get from Zoom is, you know, I've served on boards for over 30 years now.

And there's a lot with body language.

Yes.

That I can't see when someone's sitting at home. Uh there's a lot with you know a snickler here there that I can pick up that I can't get at home and that's that's reading the room. You can't do that with with Zoom. So I for those reasons I hate Zoom meetings and I think in-person meetings are important just for that for reading bar reading body language. It would have to be mandated

by the state as it was in 2020 when we did hold our finance committee meetings via Zoom because it was a state thing, right? No, but we don't have to accept it now. It's at our discretion to allow it or not. That's why I'm just asking.

No, no, it's a valid point because I'm like two that are opposed to it. Are there others that I just think it's only been and and Gary maybe you remember differently. I know there's only been a couple people who asked to be remote literally. I've been on the board for five years. So, yeah. And it's only because they were traveling or correct, but they wanted permanent. It wasn't a permanent um option for the

whole committee to be right. Not at all. It was it was a single member that asked whether though I think you know everybody has their opinion on whether or not it's it it functions in today's uh you know for for government but right um the committee would have to decide in a whole whether or not they would want to go but I think leaving it as an option on this also helps the the fact that

people travel people are not always here and are still willing to join dial in if they if they can kind of thing But no, I would never want to have the meetings go back to being Zoom as I said unless there should but this should be an option. I think you guys are right on point. But I wouldn't encourage people to do that.

Have a snow day or something like that or god forbid something else happens that you know we can't hold a meeting then.

Right.

So for the purposes of our handbook how about we write typically the finance committee meets in person. Uh however there is uh option for hybrid under certain circumstances.

Yeah. So that way someone who's might be interested sees that and knows that, you know, I don't have to cancel my vacation plans for every Thursday for the next and and it should be something in there too with maybe some kind of notice because that's that does have to be set up by DCTV.

Correct.

I mean, you can't really say that day of Oh, by the way, I'm I can't There are committees in town now that still meeting Yep.

via Zoom. That's right.

And it's been so long that I think people would have resigned if they had to go back. those some of those people would resign if they had to go back to in person. I would hate to to have somebody join this committee thinking oh I can do I don't need to attend those meeting I can do a zoom every week or you know every time we meet because zoom is allowed uh so I

don't know how you know well let me ask you something when as we're vetting or not I say Melissa's vetting these people she can make the point that it is you know we expect you to be there however if there are circumstance that you can't be there is an option, but you shouldn't be using Zoom as a vehicle to Yeah. And I suppose ultimately it's up to Melissa. I guess we're, you know,

that's a question. I'll I'll talk to her about it.

You remove the word typically and put finance committee meet the finance committee meets in person. Boom.

uh on the rare on the occasion where um when necessary you know a zoom connection is is uh available upon you can we can have that some we can set that up with um needs to be set up within a 48 hour notice

I may just change the wording slightly after so don't Crazy on me everybody. Thank you.

Typing on a keyboard that's completely different size than mine. So I'm like not doing well and the keys are one out most of those. So excuse me.

Whatever.

I will um change that sentence. That's just going to that gives me the idea of what to write.

Don't make me type the whole thing. Um, okay. So, now it's the breaking down of the roles of finance committee uh members. Chairperson sets the agenda where the director of budget and finance leads discussions, manages topic durations and calls for motions and speakers.

Um, I just inserted the chairperson has the same rights as other members to offer resolutions, make a second motions, discuss questions, and vote.

Um, traditionally, the chairperson serves a three-year term following nomination and election.

Thoughts?

Traditionally, the I'm sorry.

Traditionally, the chairperson serves as chairperson for the three-year term.

Yes.

In addition to be appointed as a member for three years. Okay. Thank you.

Correct.

That's how that's what it's we've done here.

Yeah.

Yes. Exactly. Specific to Dartmouth.

Um and the vice chair acts in the chairperson's absence and coordinates the writing of warrant recommendations, letter to town meeting, and other finance committee communications.

Okay.

So we don't have a elected appointed secretary in our group. Um the finance committee employs a contracted secretary to review meeting recordings and prepare minutes. The draft minutes are reviewed by the chairperson and director of budget and finance then sent to committee members for a vote. the director of budget and finance sets the vendor's and I'm not sure why that needs to be in there that sentence but um so

it's a question the director of budget and finance sets the vendor's hourly rate based on a predetermined scale we don't need that yeah I wouldn't gone minutes by the way are very very well done I read them all back way far away um but they're very very well done you can follow the math uh you can follow. Very well done.

We are very grateful to have a person who writes those detailed minutes. It's as if you were there in the meeting.

Those are really good.

So this is us referencing the liaison role. So to facilitate effective interdep departmental communication, the finance committee has resolved that each member will serve as a liaison to one or more town boards or committees. Um my sentence I added larger departments may have multiple liaison. This role is not intended to represent the finance committee directly, but rather to identify matters that may warrant

consideration by the committee and to advise the chairperson regarding the possible inclusion of such issues on future agendas.

Uh I added some detail. Liaons are encouraged to attend meetings. However, when necessary, the liaison should access the missed meeting on the Dartmouth community media YouTube channel to understand what transpired at said meetings. Liaison should be prepared to provide reports at finance committee meetings.

I should say oral report or not. Yeah, someone who's looking to be, oh, I got to write a report, you know, that will be 10 pages single spaced.

Great idea.

Um, and I thought it might be good to have uh the the liaison. Once again, it's educational for others who don't know what we do. The liaison departments or committees list but not have the assignments. So, they understand it's school committee, police, board of health, blah blah blah.

Exactly.

Okay.

Okay.

And there was a section working with select board and town departments.

Um I'm not going to read the whole thing that the uh I I inserted at these joint meetings because this is referencing joint meetings and the behavior. Uh the chairperson will introduce committee members and recognize speakers. So there was a sentence in there uh members should contribute only new points and avoid sarcasm or personal comments. That was questioned. Um and I thought here's an

alternative. All those members who wish to speak and contribute new uh points to the discussion should be allowed to do so before anyone is invited to speak a second time.

Could we just say using proper decorum and and eliminate the avoid sarcasm and well I want to I'm not a fan of that whole sentence that's in green and then I said the substitute sentence is the one that follows and the just so you know that substitute sentence all those members who wish to speak and contribute blah blah blah um is based on Robert's rules of order so wouldn't it be better I'm sorry

couldn't it I like the proper decor quorum according to proper decorum and Robert's rules of order are followed by the finance committee not everybody knows what Robert's rules of order are no just I think and it's quite lengthy as I'm sure you know but it will be referenced later in this but yes it's a you know it's a giant document on its own but that's that's rather than have somebody who consumes

the entire conversation you know, everyone should be allowed to speak.

And I don't necessarily proper decorum is good because I don't think sarcasm, personal comments is that's professional.

Exactly. Right. I don't proper or something like that is I think this this is depending who's chairing the meeting. I mean, we're we're making points here that we have no control over. So that second highlight aged green. All those members who wish to speak contribute new point.

Well, this is meant for should be allowed to do so.

This is meant for us.

I know that at a joint meeting, but you know, people get passionate.

I know and speak up. We're all guilty of it.

That's that's up to the chairperson to handle it to Yeah.

to go into that kind of detail in the handbook. I I I don't think it's it's needed or appropriate. That's uh it's at the discretion of the chair whether they want somebody to uh hear from them a second time before someone else has spoken.

When it says at these joint meetings the chair per the chairperson of the board of selectmen or the chairperson of the finance committee or is it the chair who runs the joint meeting? Who's the chair portion of the joint meeting?

It typically if it's select board and and finance committee it's the select board.

Select board. So whoever the chair so no in this case it would be property.

This would be the finance committee.

This is referencing the finance committee chair.

Typically the select board open finance committee chair doesn't have any jurisdiction in a joint meeting.

They do over their finance committee members.

That's correct.

Yes they do.

So who gives a person as does the chair of the select board if someone is out of line? You you can you can be John. You can be passionate.

Yeah.

Still use problem at the core.

No. No. I I get it. And and and you know, it it's I can't recall where it's ever been a problem, but I'm just you know, well, a real big problem. You know, it's big enough.

I'm not even going to go into detail.

It was We'll tell you all about someday.

Yeah.

Um, I'm just putting that in there so I could come up with a sentence.

I think as as a committee we would endeavor and I think innately we we do that uh endeavor to withhold proper decorum and I think it's fine to say that.

I think it's you know it's an expectation.

Yeah, I think it's I know what you're saying and I I know I'm just trying to think how do I word this?

I think it's a nod to situations where it hasn't happened.

Right. So if you broad brush it say something like proper decorum I can't I get why I get why it was put here but it's it's there we expect people to be you know behaving themselves part of our oath do you swear that you will carry out the duties to which you have been appointed impartially faithfully and to the best of your ability so help you God doesn't say anything about decorum being impartial.

That's God's side.

Talk anything about yelling.

No mention of, you know, tone of voice.

Um, all right. I'll come up with a new sentence.

All right.

Tone it down.

Sure. You collapse that. Yeah.

Oops.

All right. Budget process. Okay. So, this is a concern as well, which is why there's like two paragraphs here because the second paragraph was submitted by um someone else. It's really just wording.

Honestly, I I couldn't see a major difference between the two. Uh the finance committee meets twice annually with town meeting members. I inserted that. once for the spring town meeting in June and again in October. Those are just my words. For the fall town meeting, the chairperson and director of budget and finance establish the beginning of each session. So that sentence was a little confusing to me. It just seems

like it should be worded differently, but I understand what it's the point.

Typically starting in September for the fall meeting and in January for the spring meeting. Just don't like that.

Establish the beginning of each means.

Well, I think it's referencing our budget, our budget process.

Chairperson, the director of f budget and finance establish the beginning of each session.

What session?

Like the budget process.

Okay. Director finest. Establish the budget process.

Budget process. Establish the budget process. We can we can almost say that we'll establish the budget calendar.

There you go.

Finance committee's budget calendar for

Yeah. I mean, I think that's pretty selfcle. I mean, that's really clear.

It makes more sense than this.

That was the budget calendar. Yeah. Uh typically starting in September for the fall meeting and January for the spring meeting.

Yeah.

Uh spring town meeting addresses the operating budget including schedule A as well as capital budgets recommended by the capital improvement committee. The fall town meeting primarily examines additional capital funding recommendations from the capital improvement committee based on the certification of free cash.

Meetings are generally held on Thursdays from 5 to 7 at the Dartmouth Town Hall.

Thank you.

I was going to go to the high school.

There was some confusion.

Put the room number in there too.

Well, that can change of course, but yes. So, I said town hall. If necessary, additional sessions may be scheduled commonly on Tuesdays depending on the workload. So, that was the kind of the original paragraph that was there with a couple of words added.

And when you say schedule A, is that the do schedule A? Schedule A is the uh budget that goes to town meeting.

You call your Dartmouth budget schedule A. Okay. Thank you. I was going DLS in the packet. Uh at town meeting.

Okay. Thank you. Thank you very much.

So, okay. So, because dear to asked that question and this might be targeting for new members. Should we have another word in there? The schedule a budget budget.

The spring town meeting addresses the operating. Where are you? At the top, Jannine. Are you on in the green bottom including schedule A the part where we two three fourth line down middle the operating budget including schedule A as well as capital budgets recommended by the capital improvement committee I wouldn't know what you're also you're also um you know town meeting is voting on uh you know war

other warrant articles correct you know so it's kind of so could schedule a be warned articles instead of in no no no schedule A is the budget it's all it's all numbers so okay so it Should it say addresses the operating budget which in parentheses call it schedule A yeah because both that's you're saying the same thing makes more sense.

Thank you.

As well as capital budgets.

Perfect. Thank you.

And then maybe after CIPC uh um and put like maybe comm um No, among other you know including other warrant out of some as well as capital budgets recommended by the capital improvement committee other warrant articles.

Yeah as well as other other warrant articles.

Yeah.

because I think they have to have a sense that not only does the committee vote on budget and capital stuff but also as you know planning uh articles they make the recommendations on other other things other than budget put back into that calendar and the deadlines for that. So okay that makes a little more sense might clean it up more. So anyway this was the other this was sort of a rehash yeah

of that that was submitted by someone.

Um, I'm not sure it's any different.

It's just rewarded.

It's just rewarded. Exactly.

So anyway.

All right. So, that is the majority of the handbook as it stands right now. Um, I did say that we might have a little section on non-budgetary warrant articles, a sentence or two that says, you know, we have to vote on those two because whatever it's in our bylaws.

Just a sentence. Um, that were also responsible for transfers from the reserve fund.

Once again, it's a sentence.

Um, these are some of the additional and I'm not certain of what the expected content was for some of these. These are some of the things that uh Terry had added to her draft and I didn't know if we wanted a paragraph about public statements by finance committee members. I see it in a lot of other handbooks. That's not because I directed up because I looked at and saw at some other things.

Other Dartmouth handbooks or other towns? Towns. Now, what do they what do they mean by public?

They were referencing that and I I know that there have been circumstances in our past here where um you have to represent yourself as a single individual that you just because you're a finance committee member you when if you say something and I'm not talking about on stage at town meeting. I'm talking about in the general world you have to be conscious that you're not representing all nine

members. There's that statement that you always see you read. That statement does not represent the fellow committees of the However, I think what Melissa said at that meeting in the summertime when well because it was used if you sign your name inadvertently in a couple of places.

Yeah.

Where people said an opinion and put finance committee which is not that you're not a member of the finance committee but it can look like you're representing the finance committee. It can be misconcred, right? That the paragraphs you just wrote about whatever.

Can you send out some of the other towns that are This isn't a new issue for all towns. Maybe we can adopt or take a look at other towns uh statements in that regard.

Well, that's what I was doing. Trust me, I wasn't writing this. I wasn't I wasn't just writing this off the cuff. I looked at half a dozen other handbooks and and saw what some people were putting into their handbooks now. And I thought, okay, it's been an issue. So sometimes you have to just, you know, make people conscious that they can't just arbitrarily throw their title around.

It's a very good point.

I don't think this attending a um another meeting and speaking up. I don't think there's anything wrong with as long as I'm a uh for a disclosure. I'm a member of the finance committee.

That's the statement.

This is my opinion, my opinion only.

Yeah, they won't represent the finance committee in this matter as long as they clarify with a statement that I think it's perfectly fine to say whatever you want. As long as you're making that individual public statements by the finance committee must be clarified as not representing the finance committee in its totality. I mean, that's okay when you're in a meeting that you say something like that. And I've seen it

from other members who attend other meetings and they clarify themselves by saying, "I'm not here as a whatever member. I'm here as a resident of Dartmouth, whatever, for whatever reason, but also it has been used in op ed pieces." Um, so you have to be conscious if you're writing a letter online.

Exactly. that you mention it as your individual opinion.

It should be like a disclaimer of saying that is my personal opinion and does not reflect or may not reflect the uh majority of the board.

But that's that's what that was the intention of the overall handbook for every single board member. Shouldn't everyone have that same it's got it should be in here somewhere I would think.

I don't know. I didn't memorize that handbook. I have 167 documents.

I I But that's powerful because that that that's almost illegal.

I I I would think the town it's just a I look at it as a gentle reminder to people.

I don't think it's illegal. It's just can be misleading.

It's misleading. I would say misleading that state.

It's misleading. It is misleading.

I mean, I certainly don't want somebody making a big statement and they think that the whole finance committee said it.

That's right.

I might not agree and that's fine. We don't all agree on everything. You put this disclaimer in saying that my but that that was my intent there and I'll put in a couple sentences that I'll probably steal from somebody else's handbook.

That's a very good point.

I agree.

Should be something there to clarify that.

Um and I just said I'm not quite certain what the other content the intention was of the other headlines that were here.

Those were just a couple of areas I thought needed to be addressed as well.

Oh, it's a good start.

Yeah, it's a start. Very good. Um, very helpful. We will, I'm sure, be working on this again.

Sure.

And since it's it's not going to be. So, we're, you know, we're at about three pages now.

160 to go.

I know. Shoot.

You want to say that, Janine, and I can email it to you.

I can email email to you.

Thank you.

All right.

So, um, the next item on the agenda is liaison assignments. I've sent that out to the group. Now, this is obviously an older list. Um, and uh the the committee usually goes through this.

Can I give this back to you so you can display it?

Oh, yes. Yeah. Now, um I can keep in mind I don't want to be poking around your laptop.

There's still three members of the committee that aren't here. So, right. I know but then we can take a look at it and see what we can or cannot decide tonight.

What's that?

Oh yes.

Uh they just had them Monday. So it's typically two weeks which I think is coming up on Thanksgiving. So I'm not sure.

I'm not sure.

I'll I'll find you.

actually.

Okay. So, I just check every week on this December 8th.

He's a long uh community activist. He served on the planning board with me for a number of years.

That's always a Bush Street, right?

the way they named meeting room after him. This meeting I love seeing your photos.

All right.

The areas where you see question marks and yellowish highlights are um actually I don't think the uh agricultural trust we haven't had a person in that role in a while because it was empty.

John, did you have a trust?

No. No, that you Sue, wasn't it?

Sue.

Who's Sue?

Am I thinking?

Who's the uh Suguchi?

No, no, wait a minute.

Murray on the finance committee.

What was this?

Oh, no. She was on the CPC with me. I'm not I'm sorry.

Had a sue in five years that I've been here.

Too many. Too many faces, John.

Yep. Nope.

I don't know. I wasn't on the A. I was on the soils and the CPC. Um, but I was never on the A.

So, who was excuse my ignorance, Gary, but I honestly don't know anything about that role.

Neither do I.

How often do they meet?

They don't meet as I don't believe they meet as much as they used to meet. They have that fund that they had. And um, you know, they may be ramping up a little bit more because there's there may be some kind of Who is it?

Who's on?

Oh, okay. Uh Fred Dam, you know, Bruce Brooks. Bruce Brooks is on it.

Bruce Brooks is on. Yeah.

So it's like a five member board.

Yeah. And I think also um Buddy Baker Smith's on it on the commission actually. Uh by the selectman it's nine member board term according to our handbook. I read the um what it tells you how women everybody is. No, but we don't know a lot about how often they meet or and that finance committee person would be a voting member because that's unusual.

Um Oh, yeah. Let me see.

It is unusual.

But it's the only one here list. Oh, sorry. There's two. There's two that have voting. Oh, three.

Okay. Here's the uh here's the group.

Oh, this has got to be old Frank Gracie.

Yeah.

I don't think Frank's still on it.

Gracy's gone.

Phil Lens.

Uh Bruce, I know Bruce is on it. Sue is on it. Um well, Phil's not necessarily gone. He's just not on our board anymore.

Oh, that's true.

Laurian Miller may still be on it. I'm not sure. They have to I don't think this is an updated list on the website.

Okay.

Oh, this is the trust council. I'm thinking the ad commission is a fivep person board.

Oh. Um, but they don't even show their terms on there.

Oh, here we go.

Oh, no. Oh, what is it?

One, two, three, four. There we go.

Sugaduchi. That's the ad commission, though. Not No, this is the act trission.

He's right. A commission.

Trust. So, there's two that's two different commissions. There's the ad commission then the ad trust commission.

Well, they're both right here. Look at preservation. Well, I think before we go too far with this, we need to have some clarification.

Yeah, we have more detail on who they are.

So, eight and two, who's on the who's on the committee before we worry about who's going to take that role?

Um, what's it say about it in here?

Terry's got Terry, I know, is going to stay with the um capital improvement.

John, do you intend to stay with CPC?

Yeah. I I mean since you just makes sense to for me to be the liaison because I'm already appointed to that committee, right?

Council on Aging Bill.

Yep.

Still. Okay.

Absolutely.

So DPW is Brian and myself. Um the reason DPW is big. That's why it has two people. I'm more than happy to let someone else take it because I have enough. Um, if someone else is interested in it, I'll just throw that out there for now because I also have the board of health and the library and the select board.

I could do DBW if you'd like.

Depending on how the nomination and assignments get done about what depending on how you nominate and assign, if you're looking for someone to take and assist with DPW, I could do that. It it just maybe a little bit of um you know what other communities do most communities that are um have a have the finance committee um liaison the chair does not um participate in in liaison assignments because of the role of the

chair being busy um but it's okay I mean that's okay but in some communities they don't it's it's divvied up amongst the other members right that's fine um I was just trying to eliminate a couple of them Um well we'll put you down temporarily. I I haven't heard from Brian any you know he's on a couple.

Which one?

Uh DPW.

Okay. So we're going to um Jame just a suggestion since we don't have some members here. Would it be better if we held off on this till the next meeting or would you rather continue with it tonight?

I think we can solve some of it tonight and then we'll continue it again. No doubt because we're down three members.

Okay. Um, so the DPW meets on Thursday mornings bright and early.

Um, which and I admit I did go to the meetings in the beginning because it's 7:30 in the morning. Um, Gary was at the last one.

Y, but they're all recorded. So, you're not you're not participally Zoom. Mostly Zoom.

It's mostly Zoom. have been there in person but uh they they'll send they set up the link. So there's Zoom.

Yeah. Yeah. You can sit in on the Zoom if you want to, but you don't participate for the most part. You can just you can sit in or you can watch the recording after the fact.

Yep.

So, you know, that's flexible in that respect to is to get what's going on at the DPW.

Um Jine, you could put my name on the egg trust as interested, you know, some as a placeholder. Yep. just that there's something there until we discover what it actually is.

Uh well, it does in the says what it is in the um on the town's website.

Okay.

But I don't know anything about their meeting schedule. I've never really paid attention.

I don't think they meet that often.

Okay.

Um so the board of health is an option for somebody as well only because I don't want to give up the library. I have to admit I've been going to the library meetings for five years.

Yeah, I like them and they're in person and they're not recorded. Um, but if somebody's interested in the board of health, which is a lot of Zoom as well.

Yes, they're on Zoom.

Occasionally when they've had a hearing, they do meet in person. I did go to the last hearing they had here. Um, but a lot of it is Zoom if you're interested.

Uh, library sanction. So Carrie, unless I hear differently, we'll keep her on parks.

So two big openings, our planning board, we haven't had a person there for a few months because that board member is gone from here. Uh police also um was previously held by the uh finance committee chair and he's gone. So I can do both of those.

Planning and police.

So that's three, dear. Don't just keep that in mind. Um so just tell me where you want me. You can say temporary because we still have a couple other people that aren't here.

If we go full Sure.

Yeah.

If there's any other interests, great.

But that way people know what's available. That's some of us aren't giving up. I'm happy to give up health.

I'm happy to give up DBW town charter. Do they still meet? No, I don't know.

No. So, schools, and I don't want to speak out of turn, but I think Terry was uh more than willing to let it be taken over by Carrie and Nate, and I'm going to be on that as well.

Okay.

But that's three.

Is that mine?

Do you go to the meetings?

I will.

Just asking.

I will.

Okay. So, so we're going to remove Terry.

Yes, I will. I'll let her confirm, but I'm pretty sure from a com.

Yeah, those meetings obviously in person.

Yeah.

Yeah. They're every two weeks according to May, right? Something like that.

Yeah, it varies.

Yeah, couple times a month usually.

I mean, I watch them. I don't go.

Yeah.

Is there a joint meeting of the school committee and the finance committee?

Usually it's three boards get together versus just finance and school.

Thank you.

Um, so I'm I'm fine being the liaison for the schools, but just being full disclosure, I'm going to continue doing what I've been doing for the past year.

So if anyone has an issue with me advocating at school committee meetings and being the liaison, I'm just putting that out there.

As long as you disclose I I did on Monday, right? Probably discloses. Um, that's fine. We all have our opinions, Nathan. Not not no one should feel restricted on their opinions and uh you know you're not a member of the school committee. So public comment what you get three minutes.

Yeah.

So you know we could all go and talk for three minutes.

So I'm I'm just letting you all go.

Fine. Um I don't I said everybody has opinions which school select board. So I started going to the select board meetings when the previous chair left and I know Terry goes a lot of times so that in theory there's two people there. I don't know if she wants to officially be a liaison or not.

John, you're still on the soils.

Yeah, they don't they haven't been meeting and I'll keep my name there only because years ago I was on that committee where they met actively. So I've got experience there but they haven't been there hasn't been any meetings. At least I haven't been told and I'm avoiding that. Hasn't been Can I ask it? It's the soils.

It's um we had a number of uh gravel operations in town.

So that committee oversaw the uh the permitting process for gravel removal versus beach soil geo testing of so gravel. Gotcha. Um yeah that you know to make you the acra zones the depth you know how much so can be trucked over the roads cool thank you that's all but anyway thank you it's been inactive but I have experience there so keep that name there but so we have a name on every

so the people that weren't here um well I haven't heard they should have the opportunity to if they're interested to speak up to say to be uh Oh yeah. Um I had a question and yeah, I wasn't intending on changing the others because I haven't heard anything from Brian as an example. Um and I know Terry is not going to give up long-term capital planning. Um but on the waterways, maybe you can clarify this

Gary, there were two.

So one was harbor and the other was I don't know. Waterways.

Waterways.

Okay.

So, um what's it's two different committees.

So, Bob was the second one. Um Bob was on waterways.

Yeah, that's Yeah, he was. But Brian is also on harbor side of it.

Oh, so we need one more meeting. The harbor waterways commission is an active board.

Yes.

The harbor commission was only to do that study, I think. And I think that's that's done, right? No longer. Well, I guess the question is, do we need two members on the waterways?

I don't think I don't think we need two members on the waterways. We just need one. And the question is, you know, if Brian wants to stay and do that or is it an opening for somebody else?

So, that's a question for next time.

Do waterways include Oh gosh.

Upon how against Thank you. I barely can say some of the names.

It's supposed to include all waterways within the town.

Yes. in Town Beach.

Town Round Hill Town Beach.

Water.

Water.

Water. Water.

There were some um changes in waterways just voted in 2018 or something in a new map.

So, I was just kind of I thought I saw something. Anyway, I was just curious to see if it included the town beach as well.

Jones's beach as well.

Well, the beaches themselves are by parks and wreck.

Yeah. If you're talking about the actual beach is not Yeah. waterways.

Okay. Okay. So that's waterways is, you know, like out in the water.

Okay.

Like they've, you know, moved a marker or that type of thing.

They they do that's an enterprise fund, too, right? Like it's Yes.

Yes.

One, you know, waterways is supposed to be more than just the harbor.

Rivers and streams.

Rivers. You've got some of the environmental issues. Absolutely.

Quite beautiful.

So Patrick uh Patrick, you have the email. I was just going to say, do you have the email from Patrick? He expressed interest in three things.

Let me see.

Put his name in right now.

That's right. His name isn't up there at all.

Well, because he's fair he's fairly new.

And we haven't really looked at this list per se in a while. Obviously, we had to because of the changes in our committee. Could I ask a question about liaison? So, um, one of the people that I I let me rephrase. Um, if I wanted to introduce myself to a department head when in my old job, if you will, my when I was working, you would get a call and say, "I'm interested in meeting so and

so. Can I call them? Is that all right with you?" And so, I would call and say, "Is it okay if I call the superintendent so that I could call and introduce myself to Mr. Kylie?"

Yeah. and I would not be a member of the finance committee, but I would like to introduce myself to him. And so I don't know if I have to ask permission or if I should ask I would be reaching out.

You let Mr. Kylie know that you're a new member of the finance committee because I want to make sure that that would be okay to do.

That's right.

If you're acting as layers on is is you know understood.

Not even not even as a lay. You want to introduce yourself?

Well, yeah. I just think about you want you're talking about being a lay in.

I actually I would just really like as a former assistant superintendent to assistant superintendent and MSBA and the roofs and all that stuff just to say hi. I've been in your seat for 20 years.

I'm a new finance committee member, but I'm not your liaison, but I wanted to say hi.

Okay, let's America.

Oh, okay. I just wanted I wanted to make sure I asked that question before I said I need to put a rule in the handbook. Oh my god. Just wanted to make sure it was appropriate under public statement. That's right.

That's right.

As long as you don't go in there and announce your, you know, so Patrick had uh interest in the library council on aging and veterans.

I'm sorry. Oh, and veterans.

Library. I remember looking at and thinking all three of those spots had a person in them.

Yeah. And so maybe I already expressed my interest in staying with libraries.

So we'll keep this as a draft.

Correct.

Maybe maybe Brian would want to give up veterans.

Yeah. um seeing that he already has DPW a bigger department Bill doesn't want to give up know he has interest and and then you know when we all meet you know we can hash it out again so I'll put Patrick in here yeah I'm in there because if Brian knew he's interested in veterans maybe Brian would step down and might want to change a role or step away from that role altogether

correct that's why I didn't want to assume people might not want a role anymore which you can you can always change and as the new member Please put me where others.

So he wanted that library.

And is there only one member on capital?

Yes.

And council on aging.

Bill's had council on aging for a while too. So correct.

Yeah. No, I I have a good rapport with Yeah. No. No. Like as I said, no one no one's asking anybody to change. Just sometimes you might want to switch.

Is the uh budget advisory?

Well, it's not a liaison position per se. Um I don't know. Is that something you think we need to have?

Why wouldn't we consider that a liaison even though because we're saying there's voting members up here?

Yeah, I mean we could include it just so we have record of it.

Yeah. I mean looking at it just to show members and new members that that that y a position exists.

It's not um I don't believe it has yet to be determined how long that board will stay in existence.

But you're right that's fine. And Gary, you know who's on it, right?

Yes.

Could you refresh my memory, Gary? To who's on that, please?

You.

Me? Who else?

No, I don't know if it's you.

I bet I was. You get behind my back and you put me on.

It's myself and Brian.

While I was away, John.

Yeah. No, we didn't vote you in while you're away.

It's Brian and myself. Um, it's Brian, myself. From the select board, I believe it's Heidi Brooks O'Neal and Chris O'Neal.

And I believe from the school committee, it's um Chris Oliver and Bess.

Yes.

Not that that's relevant to this, but the others, just so everybody knows, those are the because the school committee just appointed them, right? Is that correct, Nate? You were probably at the meeting, right?

Yeah, it was the last meeting previous to this past Monday.

Yeah.

So, that's So, the budget advisory group um is new. It hasn't really moved forward in any way other than getting people appointed to it in parentheses to that budget advisory.

Um it's like board town of emergency finance committee school committee.

Yeah. Um but it's relatively new to have another group of assorted individuals to take a closer look at the budget.

It hasn't met yet.

No.

So that is um Do we have Did we leave anybody out that hasn't had any? So Brian's on here, Terry's on here, Patrick's on here.

Youth commission yet, Janine? But you're on it, right?

Yes, I am.

I'm sorry. Did you want to give it up?

Well, this is very interesting which I will share with you. I haven't had the o but I can't say I have the pleasure to be attending any of those meetings. I my part my own fault. I haven't been paying attention to the town meeting schedule.

So, I'm going to have to reintroduce myself to the individuals or the chairperson of that commission and um see really want to meet. I spoke to her years ago when I first got on the she said, "Well, we meet, you know, blah blah blah. I'll let you know." And I never got an email from her. So, that we're still going through co then all that. So, back in those days. So, it

may probably all change now since we can meet in person. So, I have to do some uh reintroducing.

Yeah, the boards vary on how they communicate with the liaison. Um the DPW, you know, um, is when you introduce yourself is very good about, you know, and the agenda's posted anyway, but they'll send you one if you want. Um, and their meetings are posted, so that's that's easy. Library is always very good to me. I get all their documents before their meetings. Um, school committee, you know, they they

send out their agenda ahead of time. Um, do you get those school committee agendas?

I I find them. Well, they're posted online, but she sends them to me. I can Oh, yeah. No, I I typically can probably just get them sent directly if you want.

Pretty close eye on the town calendar.

No, no, I know. Um I'm just saying. So, usually when they know who their the leaison are, they just send out whatever.

Um I wouldn't I'd be interested in planning board as well.

Um well, they meet via Zoom.

Yeah.

typically listen to the meetings anyway.

Right. So you can don't have to go so much as you can just listen to the recording after the fact.

Yeah.

Yeah. So we'll leave this as draft.

Obviously the other members maybe want to look at it and weigh in if they have interest in some of these.

Yep.

So we'll leave this as a draft. I'll include it on the next agenda too.

Yes. And ideally we'll have a new mix of members at the meeting so we can hash it out again.

So uh as mentioned Cody couldn't make it tonight. So uh the items that we had on the agenda were grant update and economic development update. Also uh we had spoke about legal too and what we wanted to look at that uh at the next meeting. Uh he will update the group on on the grants almost what he uh Chris Vitali had done with the board of selectment. He gave a pretty pretty nice

uh presentation also. So, uh he'll have stuff on the economic development and then on legal on the only thing on legal is I know that um we had there was an email that circulated through the group that asked questions on what um you know what questions we wanted to ask of uh of uh the the administration. But I think that um we also have to be cognizant that uh the some of the information we

can't give out as we mentioned in the past some of it's still ongoing leg uh litigation and we don't want to um subject the town at any risk. So, um I know one of them was uh the amount that we're spending on on legal each year. I guess we want to fine-tune that. Do we want to look at how much we're spending in uh general legal? Do we want to look at how much we're

spending in um you know, labor council?

So, that's something that we we would have to know.

Who's Could I ask? Sorry.

Yeah, go ahead. Um, and again, I know the school side of how what legal what exactly what you're saying. We have a special education attorney.

We have a labor attorney for teachers union. We have a labor attorney for ASME. We have three separate attorneys.

Within the law firms, we might have specificity. Special education in particular, Title N, civil rights, all of those levels of specificity. the structure that at least we've been used to is a structure of approval through special education and then labor obviously when you're bargaining. Um here on the town side is it same legal structure of it works almost to the same thing obviously with the schools are doing

they have their own labor they have their own legal council. So on our on our side it's general, it's labor. Uh it's also right now um we have special counsel for Bliss Corner and 40B.

So those two are most recent.

So whenever general counsel can't um uh partic participate in any kind of legal matters, we get special special counsel to So when you say that and labor counsel too. We have labor.

When you say general counsel, is that a a person? Is that Yes. So it's a f so Anthony Savastano is our is our is our town attorney and from there Anthony will determine who if it's a labor if it's a labor issue we have labor council where those where those pieces fit. So he's it's everything goes through Anthony uh so to speak and then if there's special counsel like for 40B for instance that's

like the most recent uh we Anthony thought that it would be more advantageous for the town to get special counsel that deals just specifically with 40B and you know any other special couns you you've got police teams we've got um um how we've got about five unions so we've got laborers Uh we've got steel workers. We have DTEA which is the the uh steel workers.

Steel workers. Yes. We have teamsters.

And then we have the unions of the schools. Um uh DTEA is the employee Dmittown employee association.

Okay.

So that's the that's the town employees.

Thank you.

And police and then police.

Thank you.

So for me I I think and I think I'll speak for myself. I'd like to see some categorize in when it comes to um legal counsel and the spending, you know, what are the top categories certainly divide out, you know, the specialties, the 40Bs, the Bliss Wisconsin, but even under general counsel, if we could get some kind of category there and then more importantly, you know, what were the top five or 10 um costly

costs uh the past year? Uh, so we get some kind of idea what's what's going on. We don't have to disclose. I mean, you you know, it was for this, but we don't have we're not going to ask dive into the details.

Well, what happened? You know, I um you know, for example, I know we had two boards suing each other. Well, what Yeah, I like, you know, what is that?

What what does that cost the town? Uh I like to be a little bit more transparent and know that and I think the public should know that, too. Uh yeah. So, that wasn't on the agenda.

Obviously, that wasn't on the agenda. if if we were to speak on grants and and economic development. But I think that the legal we would need a little time to put that together because that's going to have to get we're going to have to get that all broken out. But I would say for the next meeting we still have grants and economic development and then maybe we can take a shot at doing the legal. But

right now at least the grants and the economic development.

No, that's fair. I understand.

Do you 30 bid it? Do you 30 bid it? Uh I'm sorry on on be bid legal professional services.

No.

Okay.

Ken I went through the minutes from that meeting where we had the uh legal discussion. Um I did highlight some things which I'll just rephrase it for you in an email just so you know, but there was a mention of litigation costs versus non-litigation costs. So, that's one. Um, I know there was a comment made that towns the size of Dartmouth don't usually hire in-house attorneys, which I

understand that it was interesting. The comment that actually was made was all options will be reviewed.

Oh, wow. I'm sorry.

Options for council in-house or not will be reviewed. Is that actually an active project? Uh you don't have to answer but it's a it's a you know a question that was asked. Um someone asked about uh legal project billings. Now I realize this is much more time consuming but I guess it might have something to do with how John asked but you know breaking down the legal costs in this case it was

for the charter review process. Mhm.

That question was raised. Um, how much was spent?

Does your chart of accounts break it out when you do your chart?

Oh, yeah. We have So, we we can run these we can run items by vendor.

So, when we run them by vendor, we know who the attorney and that specific attorney is working on specific cases.

So, for instance, like 40B is one one specific law firm. We'd be able to run all those for that specific law firm and tell the committee how much a five 10 year expense history by three years.

Obviously, some of those law firms haven't we haven't done business with those law firms and so that'll be a newer newer charges that you'll see but if we did the last five years you'll see them coming on like in the last two years and then you'll see all of general counsel for the last five years.

Threeear cycles for your labor.

Yes.

If you did it over 10, you're going to go boom boom boom boom like that. Um, oh, I had another question. I'm so sorry.

I forgot it. Thank you.

Legal requests per department.

Per department. Yeah, something like that would take a little bit more um for uh council to put together uh because uh we would have to get more of um more reporting from him and uh how it how it breaks out on on the billing.

Yeah. Even by a percentage maybe versus the dollar. That makes it easier. That's just my personal thought because you know is and whatever. So there there was a comment made in the meeting how might process.

Yes. Yes.

You know there might just be one request from uh conservation whereas planning might have a lot more. You know what I'm saying?

You know so versus dollar like percentage maybe that makes.

So if you want to summarize those and I think that yeah I will we'll have at least a good out of my notes right now what the committee is looking for. Okay. And then um like I said, we'll try to shoot for the next meeting, but something like this is a little more detailed. We might have to have a separate not a separate meeting for that, but include it in it in the following meeting.

Understood. Um so in the next meeting, you want to do grants and economic development.

So I did send the presentation that was given to the select board in July out to everybody so you could see it. Um, Gary, you probably got the feedback about that presentation from one of the fincom members.

Um, not sure when was that?

A day ago.

Day ago. I have to go back and via email. I have to go back and look.

That's all right. I'll I can resend it.

Um, but if if if somebody else has thoughts on that presentation that was given um that you might want some additional information or something different, look at it.

Okay. Yes. Yeah. Okay.

I I I think the request was to have it a little more frequently.

Well, it wasn't fre. It was content.

Yeah.

Yeah. I'm not necessarily I know Cody made a comment about how they were planning to do the grants, I guess, maybe every six months. So, it's done in July. They're probably going to redo it in January. I mean, and please correct me if I'm wrong, how often do you need to hear a grants update?

And you also have to keep if the town is on a six-month cycle is that the town is applying for these grants on a fiscal year basis on a calendar year basis. So, um, six months, I think, is a good target date because you'll get more information than if you get right, we're talking about the same thing every three months. It doesn't really we don't need it every month or

I only wanted to know the success rate.

That was my right. But it'd be not I think it'd be nice because that presentation was nice.

I thought that presentation was well done at because I was there when he gave it at the select board. It was a good presentation. Um, you know, I guess I could nitpick into something I might want to see, but I didn't look at it that closely. Honestly, I thought it was good content, but I could see where it might not change dramatically except maybe every six months. But it would be good if the finance committee was

included in that cycle. M you know I'm sure everybody here is not adhered to watching the select board meetings when they get an update.

Yeah, we can look at um maybe a um you know start off with start off with a review of the presentation for those members that didn't see it and then see what we can produce going forward for updates.

Well, I don't think anybody saw it except myself and Terry right here because we were at the select board meeting. Unless you all watched the meeting, then you saw it. Um but that's fine. And if he has anything new to add to that, that'd be good. But yes, definitely going forward, please, you know, consider us a separate entity.

Um, and then he had a general economic development update that he was going to give. That's fine.

Y All right.

So, that would be it for um so that's next what we plan on for the next meeting.

Okay. Lazison reports.

Nate, I just became the leazison tonight. It sounds like um but I was at the school committee meeting. Um trying to think and take notes cuz it actually didn't say for the whole thing, but I did watch it on YouTube.

What came? Well, couple new things they did. So, at town meeting, we voted on the $250,000 feasibility study. The MSBA did approve the U Dartmouth to be in that program. So that'll kick off that that process. So they're working through that. They uh did mention again at the Monday's meeting that they'd be uh submitting a statement of interest for a new school um early next year, I believe.

Did they narrow down the school?

No, not yet. No. Just a lot of that will be dictated by the MSBA. Okay.

Um in terms of what they would be willing to fund. So yeah, uh that's all I can Okay, they did do a presentation updating on the the progress towards the strategic plan. A pretty good presentation um just sort of highlighting they're going to do a periodically like the steps that they have in process, the steps that they've completed or the steps that they are yet to start. So it was a good good overall meeting.

Good.

Like that.

Bill, anything?

Nothing from council on age. I'll be going to the next meeting. Um, excited about the kitchen renovations and they should be. Took a while.

Yeah. Well, I think frankly I thought the uh I didn't think we'd be voted upon in the fall meeting. I thought because the preparation the planning we may be extended out to the spring of the last meeting which I was at with them. I said we want to make sure this is done properly and the estimates are accurate.

you know, as far as we don't want to uh say they put in say 400,000. I just number and say it comes back like 450,000.

You know, at the end I try to say that we should be as accurate as we possibly can and make sure we're dotting the eyes and crossing the tees and you know Chris Vitali worked on that guy was involved in that and Cody. So, uh, hopefully it will be in line of what they estimated the cost will be because they're unearthing things that an old kitchen. I know when I first looked around my house

and contractor said this and of course they ran into that. So, we don't know. I mean, I also asked I was because I was a project manager on it and I said I always put in of and you probably done it yourself. You put in like a fudge factor or you know contingencies.

Correct. To mitigate risk, you add so much as a buffer and they couldn't come back with me what they actually added as a buffer. So that's was my concern.

Who who could I I'm sorry.

Yeah, please.

Um, so when I first came to town to to Dartmouth, I went to a few meetings and I was very excited about the project and I would walk the site and I uh was thoroughly involved in looking at the planning documents. I went kaying too with the seniors out at the Westport River which was kind of fun.

Um uh that kitchen puts out meals.

It does.

Um it's it's just extraordinary what the center does for the community.

No, they do a lot in the kitchen. I have um and uh watching the meeting and hearing about the success of the warrant article and knowing that there are building plans for the rest of the site and building um wanting to make sure that that 400,000 in that construction does not interfere with the rest of the planning for construction or expansion and you know who monitors clerks that job

with those kinds of things. Well, Tina, that should be up to frankly the project manager tying into the construction with employees.

Well, first of all, the project manager should be part of the construction team.

That's part of the part of the whole package.

Correctly. And they should be interfacing with department heads.

Okay.

That's what they should be doing in theory.

So, that's the way project management works.

So, I'd love to be part of that if you need any help there.

John, did you have anything? Uh, no. CPC meets uh next week.

Um, Gary, I'm going to put you on the spot because while I did watch the DPW meeting, I know you were at it. Um, and you can just talk a little bit about the, uh, water increase.

So, um, cost, as you know, at meeting, we had a had to have a warn article to address some shortage in the, um, you know, the operations for the water department. So, but what Cody and I are doing right now is we're trying to um get some get an analysis together. We're going to meet with the board again uh to try to determine uh potentially a midyear rate increase. Most most likely

we're going to need a media rate increase to get us through.

Mhm.

Uh and it's namely because of the uh the amount of money that we're spending on prefford water to uh to supplement the wells that are down here in town. So, we're working on that now. Um we'll be meeting in the next week or two with the DPW to present that. Uh but we definitely will need something uh to get us to carry us through fiscal uh 26.

There were 13 wells and three are down right now.

Not sure on the number of wells, but I know that there were three and there's one believe coming up soon. Uh Penelli wells uh uh the operations on Westport Road, which we used money to fund, is coming back online. So the hope is that the tail end of fiscal 26 we're relying less on New Bedford water and uh so which we'll be we'll probably get back to some normaly in FY27 when we

build that budget but uh 26 because of those wells being down were uh crucial that we had to pump extra water additional amounts of water from the city.

Thank you.

So we're working on that now. So once once we update that we'll be updating the board uh DPW and then uh the liaison if we're watching can fill the committee and we both Cody and I will also tell the finance committee on what's going what's going to happen with that.

Um we don't have any minutes for approval right?

Um no minutes because it was uh town meeting.

Okay. Um when should we meet again?

Uh just before we go uh there's a few things that I want I want to um mention.

Uh so effective 1126 uh we're going to start we will start utilizing uh what's called one drive. So I'll be putting all the information into this one drive. Everyone will have access to it so we can eliminate the amount of paper that we're using. We can share documents and it'll all be housed in one particular folder. So I want to work with IT director to get uh everyone set up with that

and you'll access that through email.

Um as you me as you also know that we're changing the email addresses to town. So that that's a big endeavor that RIT uh director is working on. That's huge.

Flipping the switch on that.

Yeah, that's huge.

We got a grant from the state. So, we're flipping the switch next week.

So, it's been uh quite an undertaking because you don't realize how many places that email sits uh most of the financials. I mean, it's everywhere.

Entire website.

Yeah, it's everywhere.

That's a lot.

So, um head also uh I did we did uh post on our website if you've seen the uh MMA um perfect storm document they did. I think it was well written. I think there's a lot of factual information in here.

Um, and it's a it I think it really goes along with what we produce every year for the finance committees letter, you know, informing them of a lot of this information. And a lot of this information is coming from the uh division of local services, but it's really in-depth and if you haven't read it, I mean, it's a few pages, but um we included it on the town's website for for the public to read.

Um, also coming up in the next meeting, we'll have two reserve fund transfers for unanticipated items. Uh, one is the elevator in the building. Uh, the elevator in this building is obviously probably as old as the building if not um the same age. And then also uh you might have heard me speak on this in the past on the cleanup that we had to do on um the location behind uh the Moby Dick

facility with an encampment that was there. Uh and uh instead of not using town resources because there are some items out there that can't be removed by town employees would be too dangerous.

So, we've got some quotes for a company to come in and clean that th those folks have been moved off that site uh and no longer there. So, we need to that is town property. We have to we have to maintain that. Even though it's in the woods, we should uh be maintaining that.

So, I we have quotes with with numbers uh next week's meeting of whenever we meet next uh we plan on putting those on for reserve fund transfer.

What happened to those people that they moved? I believe they were they are in um in a facil in facilities, you know, housing. They were I believe we can I can give you more determination on that.

Curious.

And and that's a lot of efforts for the council on aging that work with them.

Yeah. Know I know I they went around town because they did a count obviously and I know there's various parts of town that are known for their encampments.

Yes.

Yeah. They go right in the woods and so when they're on town property and and there's there's items that are there that need to be cleaned, it's it's it'd be too dangerous for them.

Right. That was was it springtown meeting? We had that discussion. It was spring. I know there was a big Yes.

Yeah.

Okay.

So, uh that is has it already been cleaned or waiting for the train? No, it sounds like he's got to get we have to we have quotes. We have to we got we got the quotes right now. We're getting we're getting prices right now, but um we won't begin until we bring it in front of the committee. Same thing with the elevator. I mean, so if it's next week, I mean, we need to

really need the elevator because the elevator is uh You're only 80.

I mean, it's opening when no one's no one's here. I mean, it's kind of it's needs to be redone. Hasn't been looked at in a while. So, we'll have those. I think we should meet next week.

Okay. That's what I was going to ask.

So, is that the address the year before before Thanksgiving?

The 20th.

Yeah. Okay.

11:20 is the next meeting. Okay.

All right. So, 11:20 and you're going to have reserve fund.

Yeah. We'll have the two reserve fund transfers. We'll have the town administrator's update for grants and economic development and um Oh, we should have the handbook again.

The handbook. Yes. And um liaison assignments. Those are draft.

Right.

That's plenty. That's a lot.

And that is all I have.

Okay. Good.

Anybody have any thoughts before we wrap it up? just that I really enjoyed Dartmouth Day at the New Bedford Greater Regional Vocational Technical School on November 5th.

Um it was really a a a wonderful opportunity um I'm from the Northshore where our VO was 11 member communities. It was very very large. So to see such a wonderful school from your remember towns um we got a tour we got breakfast um and Jean Jean was there I know so sorry I was trying to remember and I introduced myself to everybody for the first time so it was a lovely day um they did a

nice job with Dartmouth day signs everywhere you walked you saw green and the big D for Dartmouth so it was a wonderful they treated us like royalty they did I didn't get a breakfast I got to You and I were last year.

Well, he looked at the guest list this year and said, "Good. John's not there, so we'll give breakfast to everyone."

My school to keep and uh clean.

Somebody want to make a motion to adjurnn?

So moved.

Second. There you go.

We're done. Good.