Historical Commission Meeting February 2, 2026

So, first of all, I want I want to uh state that the meeting is being recorded by Dartmouth Community Television. So, uh our microphones are all on, which is great. Um and I want to go ahead and call the meeting to order. Um first order of business is to uh is to I don't know if you've had a chance to print out and review meetings from the January meeting. I'm sorry, minutes from the

January meeting. Um and let me know if there are any corrections to make or any questions about that. Uh they should be in your right in front of you.

Um, and hopefully we had a chance to take a look at that.

And I think we had changes on just one of them. I think item B on there. And uh, any kind of corrections have been made by Michelle or Bev or whoever did it, but um, so it looks good to me. Any other questions or comments about minutes from last last meeting? Quite extensive front and back.

Okay.

All right. Excellent.

Uh well, let's go ahead and and take a look at um Do you want to approve the minutes?

Oh, yeah. That's a good idea. Uh so, I'm going to make a mo motion that we approve the minutes from January 5th, 2026 as they are currently.

Make the motion.

Make a second. Okay. All in favor?

Okay. Great. All in favor? That went ahead and passed.

Thank goodness. All right. Um [snorts] 93 William Street. Um is that you? No.

No. No. No. Nobody. Okay. Um 69.

Okay. We'll go back to A and B. We're going to go to HDPR 20 26-4.

Uh and Greg is here to talk us through this.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Greg Jones, architect for the Rose.

Kevin drawing a blank on the Mrs. name. Kevin and Mrs. Row.

So, it's a house on Nashan. Um, they're renovating the interior upstairs.

They're putting a new master bathroom in this area, but we're working the bathroom around the windows. So, none of these windows on the second floor or attic change. So, it's going to stay the same. What does change is they're moving the kitchen from one end of the house to where the sun room is now. So, currently there's a sun porch here and on the front. So, when they move the kitchen to the side, we have to

eliminate a bunch of these windows so they have room for counters, cabinets, and wall oven. Um, so in the end, it would look something like this. one window on the corner, small window in the new mudroom, and then this space in between is all going to get reshingled to match the rest of the shingles. Um, on the waterfront side, couple minor changes.

Greg, real quick, just what which side?

This is the south facing elevation. Is that right?

So, this is south.

Okay.

And this is also the south picture of it.

Yeah.

Um, okay. Fair enough.

So, south, northeast. So the east elevation which is the waterfront elevation this guy the only changes there are behind the existing porch the porch remains behind it about 10 ft back are some new windows into the kitchen and a new set of u French doors from sort of a vestibial area to the deck.

Okay.

All upstairs stays the same. All this side stays the same. Currently there's a solid door here. They've elected to get rid of the door because they have another door over here. So that's just going to get shingled in. Front stays the same.

And that is a that is a porch on on on this side, correct?

Yes. So this is this is an open porch facing the water and this is looking at it from the water.

Okay. And those are stairs coming down from windows. All clear from where does this?

So there's a porch there floor [clears throat] plan wise.

And I know that DCTV tech is going to get mad because I'm not talking to the microphone. Um, okay.

Where am I?

Bedroom. So, I'm done. So, this new kitchen is in this area.

Okay.

This deck is here.

Then there's an existing bumpout interior space here and another corner deck over here.

So, our new doors are here. Existing set of stairs off the deck down to the land.

Not changing those. Over here, there's actually a set of stairs I've not shown that we're not changing.

Okay. And again, this is a this where new kitchen is is a south facing, correct? So, this is where all those windows were, right?

Like to replace with cabinetry and countertops.

Okay.

And all the materials will match what's there. White trim, white cedar shingles.

Uh there's no roof work anticipated, so no roof changes.

Okay. Um, new kitchen, master bedroom. Okay.

Bathroom. Um, are there any other questions from the rest of any questions?

That's nice.

Um, I have nothing more. Great. I appreciate you taking us through that.

Yep.

Thanks. Um, so can I get a uh a vote on this a motion on on this particular HDPR from somebody?

I can make a motion uh to approve HDPR 26-4 69 Avenue uh as plans proposed.

Okay. Uh I second that. And all in favor?

All in favor?

Great. Thank you.

Thank you. And you're going to stick around right?

I think so.

Want to check it out.

Okay.

Okay. Um I appreciate that. 30 uh 304 Elm Street.

Okay.

Uh Greg Jones, architect for 304 Elm Street. You may be familiar with it.

It's the Will Milbury real estate office in the corner of uh Bridge and Elm. Um he's recently sold his primary house on the water there at the corner of Water and Bridge Street. Um spends most of his time now down in Florida, but he comes up on for business quite often. So there's an existing apartment [clears throat] um up on the second floor here that looks out onto Elm Street with a

couple windows here and here. And then on the Bridge Street side, it's just roof with three skylights. And where the roof is, when you walk out to the edge of the space, the roof starts at about three feet off the ground and goes up.

So the apartment is very there's only maybe half of it you can stand up in.

Yeah.

As you walk towards the outside wall, you knock your head. So since he's going to be he used to rent it out, but he's not renting it out anymore. He's going to live there when he comes up for business. He's proposed or he would like to add a shed dorma to the um Bridge Street side. um looks nice with four new windows. Um so that in this area at least there'll be about a

16 ft space that you can sort of walk around in. Um and again the materials would match what's there. Um they would be Anderson A series windows.

There's sort of a mishmash of windows around the place and one of these days he may get around to changing them but but right now first floor will stay just like it is. will saw open the top half of the roof and put in a new dormer.

Okay. So, the primary thing is is raising the roof at the uh for the shed dormer.

Yes. Mostly and then putting in new windows that look like they're about they're two over two or something like that.

Yeah, they're two over two double hung.

Um we sort of took some cues from the other windows down here even though they're all different brands. Some are old, some are newish.

Okay.

And that's it.

Okay. Great. I've got no more questions for this.

No me.

Okay. Great.

Yeah. Okay.

Sue, anything?

No. Okay. All right. Great. Well, I will go ahead and uh make a motion that we uh the Dartmouth Historical Commission having determined the building at uh at at 304 Elm Street uh HDPR 26-5 uh is uh is having looked at the project uh to go ahead to approve the permit as described.

I'll second.

Okay. All in favor?

Great. [clears throat] Great.

Thank you.

Thank you very much, folks.

Be kind to my little girl here.

Amen. All right.

Okay.

Um, echo Greg. So, I think we're looking at uh 217 Little River. Is that right?

Okay. Okay. So, uh, who wants to come up and talk?

Who's the talker? Okay. So, come up, please.

You guys, what what you submitted online, we have copies of. Absolutely.

So, I've got I've got printouts here, but come on up and just, you know, state state your name for the record and your role in this project, please.

All right. Scope Jones, general contractor for George Sign, 217 Little River Road to bump out the first floor, the can lever like you see on the plans. I think it's 3x8 in the front and I think it's like 6x10 in the back. Okay. The deck is not in this particular application.

Okay, that's a future down down the road thing. And the idea is to alter the interior partitions as shown.

Put in some new windows to match the existing. Change the trim to PVC to match the existing. Change [clears throat] the white ceders to new to match the existing.

Okay.

And that's that's kind of it. For some reason, I did not print out the uh plans. I just take a look at the plans.

Um Okay. And you got project pictures of the whole thing. And I'm familiar with Yeah, you got all the picture.

Lovely.

Yeah, you got the existing the existing, I think. Yeah, you do.

You do.

All right.

Um and I'm I'm sorry, Scoop, could you just run through the last part of it again? I missed it when I was looking for this. The Well, we're going to change the We're going to put in some new new windows to match the existing.

Okay. And this is the smaller of the two buildings. Is that right?

Yes.

No, it's actually is the bigger one larger. Okay.

There's two um residents on the property, 213 and 217.

Both our cottages. Um we've decided to occupy 217.

Okay.

And as such, we're just making some interior modifications, upgrading the windows to be obviously more efficient and just re-engineering the interior space a little bit to be more livable.

That makes sense. Okay, great.

Um, can't leave an addition to and and and a deck outside. Is that right?

No.

Going further?

No, not no not this time around.

Further?

No, that's that's another another day.

That's another deal down the road. We'll see you for that.

That would require a separate I think submission. Correct.

Yeah. If it's in stages like that.

Well, that's the way we're we're going to do it. We're just coming in right now to do this part. Yeah.

To get the thing going. And then Jim Pap has told us when this is done, come back in for round two.

Okay.

Which will be to kind of complete the inside, right?

Complete the inside and then possibly do the deck at that time or or not.

We're not really sure at this time.

Okay.

Okay.

Um just give me one second here.

Are you doing it because it's in a flood zone?

Yes.

Okay.

Yes.

So, we're going to do less than the 50% value of the structure, get it done, then then come back in for for round two.

Okay.

Yeah, that sounds great. You're going to work through the winter time.

Sorry. Sorry to put pressure on you.

This is winter time.

The Arctic.

It is. This is winter.

It's winter time, I guess.

Uh, do any other questions uh for scoop on this project? I don't have any.

Yeah.

Okay. Uh I'm going to go ahead and make a motion that we uh approve HDPR uh 26-7 uh 20. This is 20 This is the 217 building right?

217, right? Yeah.

River Road.

Yeah.

Um sounds like a good project. And uh can I get a second on that?

Second.

Okay. All in favor?

I Great.

Thank you very much.

Excited to drive by there and just see good things happening there. So, well, we want to get things going. I mean, I mean, they'd like to move in at at some point.

Makes sense.

So, well, you got the right There you go. Thank you very much.

We're excited to have Scoop on board.

I hear you.

Thank you all for your time and your service.

Thank you, George. Thank you. Appreciate it. Nice to see you again.

Thank you so much.

You're welcome.

Hope the rest of the evening goes smoothly for you.

It probably will. So, we've got a total of uh three that um are on the agenda that just did not did not show up.

Um and so we can we can go ahead and address them one by one. I suggest we do that and just talk about them and if we have any outstanding questions, we can just delay uh approval or delay a decision until we get feedback from the I I'll go ahead and reach out to the applicants about uh what's got to be done.

That sound fine? So, we could look at uh 88 Hancock Road at Hancock Street, pardon me. Um, it's uh I got I got to pull it up here. It was one of the ones I looked at last.

[sighs]

Sorry.

I don't know.

We don't have to whisper.

I'm just have I'm having some I thought I opened this up and printed out, but I'm having really tr problems opening it up now.

Yeah, it's awful. Whisper. No, it's off of um it's off Route Six.

Off of Route Six.

Oh, those little side roads. Yeah. Okay.

Yeah. Yeah.

I'm not able to look at the uh I look at the photographs today, but I can't see them now. Anyway, is there anything in this uh that that you've looked at that um you have questions about?

I don't know. I had trouble downloading the photographs. So, for some reason, I don't know why I downloaded them, but it just won't open up. And so, I I I can't do it. I tried I remember tried reminds me. I tried like one o'clock today. I couldn't do it.

Uh even at home. So, um I was just curious about the 20 replacement windows, what they Yeah.

going to the style.

This is one of those that uh we're going to have to put off. Yeah. And I'll go back and I'll ask that question.

There's quite a bit of Yeah. Oh, can't see photos and uh we have questions about the windows. Anything

else that um you'd like me to ask of the applicant for this?

No, I don't think for me it's just the window configurations.

Well, are they predominant? What's the style that I don't know what's on I I I really don't know because I I couldn't look at and you and Jennifer, you couldn't download them either.

No.

Yeah. So, uh it's there's a problem with either corrupted file or something like that or else it's not uploaded properly.

So, it's got I think it's kind of got to start over again because we can't we can't look at anything. I don't they're saying it's existing vinyl sighting. Um and they're going to essentially do the same thing again. Um, but so what happened to the vinyl sighting that it just Well, we need some information.

Apparently, there's some there now and they're going to they're going to come back with new and updated and add more to it. So, but but but as Sue points out, we can't see the style of the home.

We can't verify that there's indeed vinyl siding now.

They did describe it as a bungalow.

Okay. Okay. And there was a point that you could do signing and windows before it got into historical. So I forgot the year that it was.

Oh yeah.

But before it really took effect historical, a lot of a lot of that got done.

There was a year that Okay.

I I don't remember the year, but I know it was in the 2000s, the beginning you could do siding. And so there there's a a a rush or at least a movement toward people saying, I want to take off the wood. I want to go with aluminum siding. uh even if it's an historic building and uh this commission was not involved with enforcing anything or trying to enforce anything.

Okay. Um, so I I'd like to ask how do we generally feel about if there is sighting on it on a building now and um, you know, given that we, you know, it's over a certain age and it's it's it's it's it's a historic building over 35 years. It doesn't really necessarily mean a whole lot. But does that how do we feel about replacing like for like if it's aluminum siding?

We we if it's already been cited, then I think we'd be hard for us to make somebody upgrade at that point. Maybe they just bought the house. I don't know. But uh but either way, I've got questions for these folks and I'll go back and ask questions.

Okay.

And I I'll I'll report out to all you.

Okay.

Thank you.

Okay. Um Okay. 93 William Street. Um which is demolished, which is which I it already is demolished.

No. Um it's getting it wants to be done. That's the notion.

They they did not submit any plans and we're supposed to get plans. Yeah. So I I I Yeah. So So this is We need plans.

Got it.

Okay. And then finally, um 61A Beach Avenue.

Um I don't know. I was when you're ready. I have a question.

Um they had presented that the reason was that they needed a first floor bedroom for the future of first floor master.

Yeah.

Okay.

But the addition which is a twostory has two bedrooms on the second floor. I read that too.

Yeah, I read that too.

Yeah.

So essentially the um so do they not have a master bedroom up upstairs currently I guess is the question because if the reason for the addition is to change the master to the first floor then why would you need two bedrooms on the second floor? I mean I'm just Yep.

It's just a question. So, the verbiage uh for their plans doesn't really match the architectural plans.

Correct.

Okay.

Understand? I'll go back and and uh and bring that up with them. And I I get that.

Ask about that. Any other um Dan, any thoughts about that?

No. It sounds like they're putting a larger um There's probably nothing downstairs now, but they're putting it gigantic.

They're probably doing an on suite.

Yeah. 24 by 24s for a master bedroom on on the first floor.

Yeah. And they'll probably have room to do it. It's empty space to take advantage of it.

So they want to put a twotory in so they can have extra.

Yeah. Grand kids or whatever coming.

Yeah.

But it's a but but I think the first floor it looks like [snorts] they're saying out of that 24x 24 they're going to be doing a master bedroom on suite and a first floor bedroom for two years.

On the second floor what's what's going to be there in that 24x 24 space? It says a bedroom and a bedroom on the plans.

Yeah, two bedrooms lined up the other.

Oh, on the plans. Okay. I was I was just looking at the 12 bedrooms um the application.

Okay. Well, I'll go back and ask for clarification on on 61A.

So, I think what we're going to do is for uh let's go ahead and get on record that for for these three uh applications that we're going to go ahead and um postpone them until we have uh voting on them until we have further information.

So, for HDPR uh 26-188 Hancock Street, um I'd like to make a motion that we we uh we put off u we defer uh a vote on this uh application until we can understand more from the uh the homeowner, our applicant. Uh we can't see the photographs and we've got questions about the windows and other questions which I'll gather. So, uh I'd like to go ahead and make that motion that we postpone it.

Yeah.

Can I get a second?

Second.

Okay. All in favor? I I Okay, great. I'd like to also make a similar motion for HDPR26-293 William Street. Uh that we need plans.

There are no plans there uh showing what's what's going to be done for the new home construction. That's part of what we need to go ahead and approve.

So, I'd like to make a motion that we again we defer that decision on 93 William Street uh until it's such time as we get more information from the applicant. Can I get a second on that?

Second.

Okay. All in favor?

I.

Okay. And then finally, uh, HTPR 26-61 Alpha Beach Street, Beach Avenue. Um, we've got questions about the, uh, this the scope of the upstairs and downstairs. And, uh, just want to make sure that the plans as there as they're as they're being drawn up match the verbiage about what's being done and and the requirements. Um, can I get a second on that?

A second.

Okay. I'd like to go ahead. Uh, oh, and uh, all in favor?

I.

Okay, great. So, three are postponed, three are approved as of tonight, and uh I'll go ahead and make uh make some questions out to them over the open gov portal, get some answers back, and I'll let you all know what I find out. And I'll let Michelle know uh that uh we've approved these three or perhaps maybe you can be um if you when you're doing minutes or whatever you're doing.

Say that again. I'm sorry.

Oh, if you want to let Michelle know that we we approved those three. I can do it. I'll I can let her That's fine. Um so 26. So 26-7, 26-4, and 26-5.

Uh, we went ahead and approved.

Okay.

Um, as far as, uh, other business, I know Sue, you had something you wanted to bring up. I believe Michelle said you you you brought something up you want to talk about.

There was a property. There was a home that we had reviewed that submitted a demo delay application. Did she include the address on it? Because No, she just did the HTPR, I think. Let me take a look and see.

Okay. Um, let me take a look and see. I may be wrong about that. Uh, show.

No, just HTP. It's 25-38. So, I can easily just look it up.

I think it's I think it was Pamska.

Okay. It was uh Rocket Dundee.

Okay.

Well, that's the mailing address. I No, no, you're right. It is. It's Rocket Dundee.

Okay. That's under the details. And so, we approved this back in October, I think. And And so, what's the situation now? Well, I guess they're it we had looked at the photographs and there was some mold um and they wanted to to demo it, but I think there was some question as to whether or not they were going to leave some of it. I don't think it's not clear in my mind at any rate, but uh

um now they're going to they're going to demo the whole thing and and put in a new structure. There's a I think there was a granite a granite foundation.

Okay.

So, typically we would ask if the granite would be repurposed somehow.

Okay.

And we I don't think that was taken into consideration when we looked at it in October and now now that they're going to demo it, there appears to be no plan for the the granite. So, okay. So there's now a subsequent to our vote, they put in a demolition permit or a request through the building department and nothing got triggered to us.

No, they they they submitted the the demo in October, right? But I don't know that it was in totality. I don't remember that. I haven't been able to look at the Yeah, I can take a look at Let me take a look and see what it what it's what it says.

Okay. And that level of detail was not included in our communication to the property owner, right?

Because I had asked Michelle, I said, "Well, how did what did we say when we voted on it?" And she couldn't she didn't tell me. She couldn't tell me.

So, I don't know what the what the what the notes what the minutes say from that. Uh and um this was back in in October, so probably would have been the November meeting. Um, and I can take a look at the minutes and see and take a look and see their application um that we approved did say tear down and rebuild with a slight addition to it. And um we

at the time based on what we knew, we voted to approve it and Michelle went ahead and said, "Yeah, this is approved." Um, so I'll go back and take a look at the November meeting notes and see what the discussion was and see if it's kind of consistent with what is now being done to the property. Was that the one that had um the the that's not the

one that had the No, this is a demo. We There's one that had shingles and like all we want to replace them all with aluminum siding, but they look perfectly good to us. And I think that was that was a different house I'm thinking about. But um I'll go back and I'll make a make a comparison. I'll go ahead and let everybody know over email.

I'm going to see if I can get in. I didn't realize I only had 5%. So that's why, but I'm going to see if I can get in there.

And I should have that that too in my in my inbox here. Um I'll try it as well.

The house you're talking you were talk referring to was Willis Street. Okay.

Yeah, that's different.

Yeah. Okay. So this would have been I think for the November 5th meeting. So it would have come out just after November for the minutes.

Oh, you're here. I think this is it.

Oh, no it's not.

Oh, here it is.

Got it.

Yeah.

Well, maybe this is this is for September. Yeah, that's not going to work.

[sighs] See?

Well, I tell you what, I want I don't want to waste everybody's time. I'll go ahead and I'll fight it. Maybe maybe Pebb you and I can make sure that we find a copy of the notes um for November

and I'll see what the discussion was.

Um so good. I appreciate you bringing that up um Sue and I'll go ahead and do that and get something out to everybody on that. Um where is uh so the only other um piece on there for any other bit first of all is there any other other business that we need to cover u I guess I guess uh I want to I definitely want to get together with you

guys this week if you have time and I can come over by your way and the instructions to to do that to go through that. It's yeah, it's it's pretty intuitive, but I want to make sure it's smooth for you and you know just what to do and and that kind of stuff. And uh that's that's a that's a big part of the job. So um is there a day this week that works well

well for you? It's looking for Monday or day that's least bad.

Tomorrow's crazy. Okay.

Friday going up to Maine to Portland.

Thursday um is not a good day for me.

Okay. Next week is fine as well because that would be a little bit better because this week is a little Why don't you Why don't you contact me if you would and let me know when next week is good and it'd be great. I appreciate that.

Um any other new uh other business?

Um are you taking up uh Saturday or you're pretty much done with that?

No, I'm not. I was I was just going to get to that, but I wanted to make sure we had other things covered.

Yeah, that's it.

So, and my I've got a bit of a a mulpa for Saturday. We had a good meeting uh which and I I appreciate everybody uh for coming and and those who couldn't come. I want to catch you up on it. I have not had time since Saturday to go through the notes and make a kind of a recap of it. Um but I will do so in the next couple days and I'll get it out to

everybody so you can see what we talked about. That'll become our official transcript or notes from the meeting that gets filed with uh with the powers that be. And then um there were some um some to-dos or things we talked about, some things we put aside to talk about later. Um, and I'll to the best of my ability I'll put it I made a lot of notes. I'll put it together and I'll

I'll put it in context and we'll get a chance to sort of um see what was said.

Um, so I think I think some exciting good things, but we've got some more things to talk about and some also some things that I just didn't I think we're we need to get some more information about. Um, so I'll go ahead and do that.

I'll commit to doing that in the next next couple days. Um, I'll grab an hour and do that. Um, and that's really all my recap for Saturday other than to say thank you. And uh um was uh I think it's we we didn't stay very we stay maybe two and a half hour something like that.

Maybe three hours. I didn't have to buy lunch. It wasn't so bad. So um anyway, that's all from me on other business. Is there anything else anybody else want needs to talk about?

I just wanted to tell you that I contacted MHC and they are no [clears throat] longer doing the roving architect program. So, that's a shame. That sounded really good.

Well, I don't I'm not sure I got the right person on the phone, so I might circle back and speak to like Jennifer Doherty or somebody and see.

Is Jennifer still around there or is she just in a different capacity there? I know that she was I think she was moving away from her position um about a year ago because they're looking for a replacement, but I I think she was staying with an MHC.

She's still the contact on the website.

So, I mean, unless it was an old um No, maybe maybe I maybe I was mistaken about that because I I think I think you're right. Remember wishing her well or something like that, but uh maybe they haven't hired anybody yet or I I don't know, but maybe it's maybe I'll send her a note and ask her what's going on. But, uh anyway, um I appreciate you digging into that. That's

one one of the takeaways. I've got some things that I need to uh find out and questions I need to ask and I'll take care of that in the next handful of days here. So, this is a very short meeting for us even though we had uh six seven.

Yeah, six or seven. Anyway, a bunch. Um but um but anyway, thank you all for coming tonight and let's go home and stay warm.

Yeah, stay warm, right? I guess I guess it looks like we're, you know, kind of I want to go ahead and make a motion that we uh that we um dismiss. Ajourn. What's What's the right word? I think it's actually in the thing I handed out tonight. uh uh adjourn our meeting tonight uh after we've completed all business on our agenda. Can I get a second?

Okay, great. All in favor?

I I Okay, great. Thank you all.