Historical Commission Meeting - January 5, 2026

Okay. Well, I want to welcome everybody and wish you happy new year.

Happy New Year.

Happy 2026. All that good stuff. Um, I want to note that this meeting is being recorded by Dartmouth Community Media. Thank you to them.

Uh, first off, and I know that not everybody's had a chance to look at this, but um Oh, let's see. Let me just pass this around these two around. Okay.

Yep.

For your signature, please. Um, this is the lease agreement for the Aken House.

Um, please everybody uh just sign below it. Um, I can coach you on later on why why we're doing that, but it just uh we're kind of coles on this property.

So, just go ahead and go ahead and sign if you will, and I'll get it from Chris as well. Um, please take a look at the minutes from um from the December meeting and uh just let me know whether there are any questions about them.

Uh we had uh I think there's four three properties potentially I guess.

Um Michelle I don't know. Um um Linda mentioned that that her the one when she was the kind of an appellent last month sheet it's not approved yet in the system. Did you know do you normally do that if we you take a look at the minutes say this is this is approved and and market is good to go or should I do that?

No.

Okay. Was there a question about it? I don't I don't think there was.

I don't think I got the results.

Oh, okay. And maybe that was I'll just check in like tomorrow.

Okay, that sounds that sounds fine.

Um I just note um the same thing another one that there was uh uh Bev Christina there's there's an L missing from the her last name.

Okay, just uh and smile.

Um where is that?

It's in the minutes somewhere, but it it wasn't Lynn Smileage. It was another close, but not not exactly.

Yeah, I didn't have pronounce her name, and it didn't even come up on the transcript. It's spelled right.

Yeah, it's um smile and then e d.

Okay. Yeah, because even when I looked at the transcript, it came up with a totally different name.

And I'm not even seeing it, but Oh, I see. I see. Smi. Yeah. Um, so you got how to spell that. So with those amendments, um, are there any other questions about the minutes from everybody? Yes.

Yep.

All the way down.

All the way down.

Uh, okay.

Give these back to Michelle. I'm going to ask Chris who's not here tonight.

Um, any other questions about the minutes from last month?

Okay. Can I get a motion to approve them?

I'll make a motion we approve the minutes from uh December meeting.

December 1st. Okay.

Second.

You second that a motion. Okay. All in favor?

I I Okay. Um so approve.

Um Robert, do we miss opening the meeting?

Pardon?

Did we open the meeting yet?

Oh um I did, but I guess I've got a call to order.

I don't usually do that, but uh to order. You want me to do it?

Does that work?

Just just say what tell just say what time we're starting the meeting.

Oh, gotcha. Okay. Sorry. Um today is January 5th, 2026. We're starting the meeting at 6 p.m. or thereabouts and uh it's being recorded, as I said, by Dartmouth Community Media. We have reviewed and approved our minutes from December 1st.

And um we're going to start um with some demo applications just to get moving. Um HDPR25-47 for Bay View Avenue. Okay, sir. Yeah, please come up and just uh you know state your name and the relation you are to the project, please.

Uh Dana Pickup, Kfrey Homes. for the contractor on the project. Uh the project consists of removing and replacing cedar shingles on the entire house. Uh all new aluminum trim on the windows corners faces rakes freeze boards. Uh we're replacing all the windows. They're currently replacement windows now. Um same grid. They don't have grids, so same pattern. Uh decking.

We're pulling up the old decking, putting PVC decking, and uh doing some PVC skirt work on the decks.

Okay, that's it.

Okay.

Um, no.

Oh, okay. Same grid pattern. Okay.

Yep. There's no grids currently.

And uh currently there are cedar shake shingles.

Yep.

And um you're going to replace those and just use aluminum to wrap the windows.

Yeah. All window casings, corner boards, all upper trim.

Are there any questions from the group about this?

I do. Sorry. Um there were couple of things. The this has a a D number. Uh it's 180.

Um they act the form B was done twice.

Once in 1983 and once in 2012 I don't know Linda if you have anything you want to add but it in in the 1983 version they talk about the cottage had been brought by barge from Fair Haven.

But the 2012 form B says nothing about it. They've credited the cottage to a William Kirby who was a house painter.

In the earlier form B, it was credited to a Henry Perry um who who who bought the cottage in like 1900, I believe. So, there's a little inconsistency there. And I'm not sure, you know, if any This is the uh 1983 one.

What's that?

This is just the 1983 uh version of it, but uh so I didn't I didn't catch the the uh the disparity, but but thank you, Sue, for catching that. Um I didn't know there were two.

So, basically just two records of the house that sort of a little bit of competing history.

Okay.

Um, but I'd like to go back and have a conversation with Ronda Pipo who's sort of the neighborhood historian for Bay View. He's done a lot of research. Is that correct?

Yes. I think I've documented a number of the houses. So, there should be something in the um office. Yeah.

Which does give more information about that particular property. Yeah, I looked and I didn't see not in his write up.

Um I couldn't f find that booklet that he put together. There's portions of it, but not it wasn't I didn't think it was complete.

Um so the the the the date of construction differs. I've got 1885 and this one. Is that right?

Uh yeah, that's what they had in the the um the 1983, I guess. And what was the earlier one?

That's that is the earlier one. The 2012 is the latter. Okay.

But the the who the person who the persons who did the form B were Gil Fernandees and Ken Weinstein. Gil was a member of the historical commission at the time and an old resident of Dartmouth.

His family was Ghill Dairy for anybody who recognized Yes.

Yeah. From 83.

Okay. Well, but the other thing I just wanted to ask the contractor is that I noticed that in two of the images of the application, there's what appears to be evidence of an old brow window. If you look at the photograph, there's a a bump over one of the windows which with so you the shingles the shingle pattern follows.

Can somebody help me who really knows what they're talking about?

Window.

Yeah. Yeah.

I mean it looks like it looks like maybe that's what there was originally, but they left they left the shingles the same, but they replaced what was below with a rectangular window. I didn't.

Sue, is that in the pictures submitted for this or earlier ones?

Yes. No, it's in image 37. And I think there's actually two windows that are like that. One in image 37 and image 38.

Okay.

So, I see one facing the water and then one facing the I think what would be the driveway.

Yep.

Good eye. I I I would not have seen that. It's very it's very subtle. So the the uh um the shakes cedar shakes are kind of are arched above a rectangular window which is a little maybe a little unusual.

Yeah.

But before there the it's staying the bump uh on the window.

Okay.

Uh are there other questions about this property? this proposed project.

Um, one of the things that u we're going to start doing as a group is giving copies of the old uh form B inventory uh from MRIS to the the homeowners and uh we're going to get more organized about that. Um, Linda reminded me of that. But if I give this to you, can you give to the home owners please?

Absolutely.

Um, I have no no more questions about this property. Um, those copies. Is that a copy? Hey, is that a copy?

Yes.

It's not an original. Yeah. It's off the It's off the internet. Yeah. So, yeah, it's it's a copy.

Um, any other questions about uh this this property uh for Bay View Avenue?

Nope.

Okay. Can I get a motion to go ahead and approve this?

You make a motion to so approve. Okay.

Can I get a second?

Second a motion.

Okay. Uh, all in favor? I I Okay, thanks for coming in. We appreciate it. Pass it on to them. If they have any questions about um the property or about um getting a copy of the newer um um um inventory on on the house um out to Yeah, please.

We'll do. Thanks. Appreciate you coming in. Thanks.

Okay, now we're looking at uh HPR 25-481 Cleveland Street. Paul,

thank you, Mr. Chairman. My name is Paul Ken. Uh, I reside at one Cleveland Street and um I'm before the board to um discuss addition that I'm looking to add on to the house and I'm presently going to be appearing before the zoning board of appeals for a variance. Um the I've been before the board a couple times on my house for approval and if you look at the the first page sort of

gives you a rendering and what we're proposing is the area that is in uh dock and black for example is what we're proposing that facing Bridge Street uh facing the the house faces Cleveland right to the right would be we're on the corner of Cleveland and Bridge Okay. So, the bumpout is toward bridge, the bridge side.

Yes. So, the addition uh that addition is 9 ft 5 in.

And um as a result, we're too close to the property line. So, I need a variance uh to do that.

And I don't know whether you have to upload this on the portal or not for the variance. I'm not sure about that. Um is that okay? Um okay. So I'm looking So the addition is very So we This is if you look at the second page, it gives you a better idea of the elevation.

Um and we've done several several additions over the years uh and before this board. And the most recent addition was to the rear of the house. And as you can see all the window, you know, it's all in compliance. The h all looks uh like it's an old house. Even though the addition is relatively new, we've maintained a certain roof line uh six over six type windows and uh and uh horizontal horizontal siding. Um, and if

you look at page three, you can see on the floor plan, uh, what is what is outlined in black is the actual addition itself.

Mhm.

And, um, um, just in your submission um, where it says plans, I just see a plot plan. I don't see the plans on there, but uh just just so you know where it says plans, there's just the plot plan from uh um from whatchamacallit from uh Farland.

Now on on our uh the plans were also uploaded on the portal.

Okay. um the these house plans and the plot plan by fallen uh just shows the variance that we're looking for that was issued to the zoning board of appeals as part of our variance request and you can see that the extension goes out by uh 9 ft 5 in towards Bridge Street and and it's uh 14t 2 in wide. which is the exact width of our existing con uh kitchen. So, we're just extending those walls out.

Okay, I see. Okay. Well, um you're going to have your own time in front of the ZBA.

Yeah, we're going to ZBA. I'm hoping to be able to get that variance. Uh especially considering the variance that they gave to Across the Street for the firehouse.

Um it's pretty ugly, but um not pretty ugly. It is ugly. Although they're trying to do We support the fire station as to We're right across the street. We support the fire station. Uh and they tried to make it somewhat historic. It's It's not all that bad.

It's just the construction has taken forever.

Okay. This is uh fire district one on fire district one. Yes.

Okay. Um, and so and we have support from the fire chief for what we're doing and most of the all the neighbors. No, no one is in opposed to what we're doing.

At least that I'm aware of.

Okay. Um, are there questions from the group too?

Yes, ma'am.

Um, because this is before ZBA, um, we might have to approve this with the condition that they get approval from.

Of course. Of course.

But we can certainly sign off on the workflow to get it to get it moved along.

That's what I'm asking.

Um, which is fine. So, is there a CPA number?

Uh, ZPA.

Okay. I don't I don't know the number.

Okay.

Which hat are you wearing there? There um there is a formal filing with the zoning board of appeals. We've gone through a whole bunch of stuff and um so we have a meeting 252 I believe.

Okay. I can just double check tomorrow.

I know you're not in that capacity, but I can double check tomorrow.

Okay.

Just point of curiosity, how how close are you offset wise?

We're going to be 12 ft.

Okay.

It's supposed to be 20. So we're asking for uh a variance of eight feet.

Sir, there's no sidewalk on that side, is there?

No. No. Okay. And you know, one of the one of the variances that we're asking for is also uh you're supposed to on a corner sight distance going across um but all the houses in the whole area all have the same issue including the firehouse. Okay.

Yeah. So obviously it would be subject to variance of of approval from the CBA.

Okay. Well, I I'm familiar with your house and and uh I I know that you have taken great steps to the windows and everything that look uh look great.

So uh anyway, any other questions from the I think you had a question, Phil.

Is there enough room on the area that you're expanding for a sidewalk in case they decide to put one in?

Yes. Uh when I say when I say we're going 12 feet, that's 12 feet to the property line.

Then from the property line to the curb, there's another 68 ft. So, if they were ever to put a sidewatch, which I doubt it, the sidewalk would should go on the other side where this where the side there's a sidewalk now that comes up from Elm Street going up Bridge Street and that would I would think would continue.

It just stops uh it it it stops about where the firehouse is.

Right.

Is there any driveways going there?

There is an existing driveway.

Yes, that's that's staying the same, but we're not we're not making any changes where the driveway is. The it's it's the the change is from where the existing driveway is towards uh towards Cleveland Street.

Any other questions about this project?

And you propose obviously to keep the use the same siding consistent. Okay. Um, no more questions?

No, it looks good.

Okay. Um, I'll make a motion that we go ahead and approve uh conditionally provisionally until the zoning board makes their approval for this property at 1 Cleveland Street uh HDPR25-48.

And I second.

Okay. All in favor?

I.

All right. Bill, you got to raise your hand.

Bill, you got to raise your hand. Oh.

All in favor? I. Okay. Um, great. Um, good luck with it.

Thank you.

And, uh, do you want to keep these plans? It's up to you.

No, no, no, no, no, no. These are expensive. Unless anybody else wants them, I don't want them.

But, I appreciate you bringing them in.

Okay. Thank you.

Good luck.

No, I got a question. Is this going to be a single family? Is this going to be a single family house once it's finished? And it's not going to be subleted and make apartments in down the road.

HD is no no it's it's continues as a single family you can't move in though it would be a great space a great space it's a dog house big enough if it was a kitchen do you I think I'd have to go through a whole different process for that okay great I appreciate that sure thank you And uh Okay, we're talking about HCPR 25-49 292 Elm Street. I think that's why Greg's here.

Yes.

Thank you. Uh Greg Jones, architect for the owner of 292 294 Elm Street. I was here last month for the second building on the property and you can if you've been by, we've started work on it. Um, and the client wants to finish that one up and then move on to the last two, which had been two residential, two sets of apartments. Um, he wants to restore them back to two two-bedroom units. Um,

in the waterfront building, I got to make sure I get this right.

And then the building that's just one back from the waterfront, there's going to be a one-bedroom apartment and a two-bedroom apartment. Um the proposal and I'll start with you can't talk them into doing a pizza place there or something like that.

No, no pizza. No, we've tried. I mean there may be the building they're doing now. There was talk about doing like a clam shack in there.

Um but so far there's no tenants. So still a possibility.

Um so the first building we'll talk about is this guy which is the second off the water.

And we propose to keep this primary elevation which is this guy here.

replace the window. Put a new door here.

Replace that existing door that's down here with a pair of windows. We're also going to change this is a very low slope flat roof here.

Any leaks at the joint right there. So, we're proposing to make it a gable roof.

So, if I was to look at it that end, it'd be a gable roof.

Okay.

Just to help with the drainage. Um, also there's currently a shed in the back and we've spoken to the building commissioner. He's allowed us to take the footprint of that shed and slide it and join it to the back side of the existing unit which would allow for a bedroom, living room, small kitchen and a bathroom in that unit.

Just just so I understand. Yep. Where where the new bedroom is, is that facing Bridge Street? No, this this new bedroom you you'd never see it. It's sort of um it's it's tucked behind this sort of alleyway.

Okay. Okay.

There's a little bit of kind of a courtyard back there. Um so that becomes a bedroom. This gets a living room, dining room, kitchen, two small bedrooms, and a bathroom. They all stay one story.

um we have to phase it because again we're in a very bad flood zone down here. So um it'll probably be two to three phases to make it work. So it could take some time to make happen. U but the alternative is to tear it down and build 12 feet up in the air which no nobody wants to do. Um okay.

So that that's that first building. The materials would be uh white cedar shingles just like they are now. We plan to uh wherever we're doing a new piece of roof, the old building has exposed rafter tail, so we're going to mimic that look. Uh Anderson A series windows, white Azac casing, uh and cornerboards. Um an architectural style asphalt roof. Um so that's that's that building.

Okay.

Then the one closest to the water is in fact two stories worth.

um with the exception of the back side.

This back this back ended actually over here is only one story. So again, we've met with the building commissioner to sort of get his uh okay to make sure we're not going down the wrong alley, but he will allow us to make this a second story to match the front portion of the building that has two stories.

Um, and for the most part, this front of the building, which is this guy here, for all intents and purposes, is going to stay just like it is with new materials, white cedar shingles.

Is this facing Is this facing the the water?

No, this this side faces the water.

I see. Okay.

This side this side faces the parking lot.

Okay.

Okay. The one big thing that's going to be different on this particular property is in the old scheme there was only one way out from the second floor. Modern code requires that we have two ways out.

Um so we're proposing a sort of a bump out on again this sort of hidden courtyard side between this building and that building that allows a second stairway to get us out from the apartment above. So, if I'm in the apartment upstairs, I can come down this stair to get out or I can go on the deck and get out down the deck stairs.

So, will there be a um will it look as though the two buildings are connected in the end?

No. No, there'll still be sort of a pathway of about 10 ft where this bumpout is between this building and the other building and then it widens out to about 16 ft. And there's the plan is to make that a little bit of a courtyard for the two units that both share will share that sort of space.

Um, and then the backside of both of these buildings, there's going to be no windows because it's literally about 8 ft away from the condos and farm and coast.

So, it doesn't make sense to put windows back there to be staring into your neighbors bedrooms. Um, so that that's that's the plan. And again, all the materials are going to be the same as what's here, just new. Um, and hopefully at the end of the day, with some aging, it'll look like it's been there for a long time.

Okay.

So, that's the proposal. Um, happy to answer any questions that you guys might have.

Just curious, you know what the zoning is for?

Yeah, it's maritime. Um, there's a section. It's maritime business or industrial, something like that.

industrial that allows mixed, you know, business, uh, residential and maritime related uses.

Okay, that's great, folks.

Looks great. Yeah, there's not going to be any It's You're going to have a courtyard in the circle of houses. There's not going to be parking.

Oh, there's going to be parking. So, the courtyard itself, if you go down that driveway to get into this space, you would have to make a left turn. And there's a parking for 12 cars next to those condos.

On the opposite side by the farm and coast side between these two back buildings, there's probably a 16 by 20 foot green space that we're going to develop into a little common courtyard for the two houses.

There is going to be for the residents that are in that uh in these units. Yep.

Are going to have parking spaces. Are they going to be numbered and everything?

Oh, yeah. So part of the deal is we have to if we if we do this and get a permit for it, we have to provide um two parking spaces per unit. So it's a total of eight spaces.

That's going to clutter up your whole ambiance of those buildings.

It it it is, but there's so little parking in the village that I I don't think they'd be Well, one, we wouldn't get a building permit, and two, it'd be tough to rent if you couldn't rent it with a parking spot. Anyway, not not part of our purview really, but but I mean I I would like to see some it's not our purview, but it's just like why we're here discussing it to have it

known that there is going to be parking in this area and if you get a GMC truck in there is going to take up more than one space.

Yeah. I mean this if you go by there now the tenants in the front building right on Elm Street, there is a GMC Suburban that parks there. So they manage, you know, it wouldn't I wouldn't say it's easy. U but it it's tight back there.

And the original plan we were going to when we were going to develop it all in one big fell swoop was to make garden area um for the tenants, but we ended up with like six parking spots for all the buildings there and it just it wasn't going to fly.

What about dropping off and picking up um accessories for Farming Coast? They have a hard time dropping things off.

Are they going to utilize the back space?

Yeah, there's there's a in both deeds there's a lease, not a lease, an easement that Farming Coast has to allow deliveries to go into that space. Um, there has been discussion between the two property owners to because it gets crowded and you can't block people in the parking area. So, the small trucks now back in, the big trucks, for better, for worse, are unloading on uh on the street.

So if some person that's living in these sites, if they have a boat, Yeah.

they're going to be parking their boat with their cars.

I wouldn't think so. I think that'd be a tenant owner deal. I There really no room to maneuver trailers back there.

Okay. Are there other questions?

Nope.

No.

Our friend Greg. Okay. Good. Um, well, I would make a motion that we approve HDPR 25-50. No, pardon me, that's not wrong.

25-49 at 292 Elm Street with the uh with the renovations and improvements that uh that Greg has talked about.

Can I second?

Okay. All in favor?

All in favor?

I thank you very much once again, you got do you have time late this week?

Yeah. Give me a bus.

Give me a bus. Okay. Thanks.

Excellent. Excellent. Um, our last uh appellant tonight um sent Michelle a note saying they won't won't be able to attend because they had their second baby this morning.

Oh, no.

She said, "I don't care. Bring the baby in here." She didn't say that at all.

Um, but uh I think that we can go ahead and I've looked at this. I know those of us who could have done it already. Uh, but this is HDPR25-50 at 595 Quinnipog, how do you say Quinnipog road. Um, and the house is indeed in rough shape, but um, we can take a look at this and we can go ahead. I think we can go ahead and talk about this at

least and and uh, if there are no questions that we we need to ask of the homeowner, then we can proceed. And if we have questions, then we can hold it until we uh, we ask questions of them.

Where is that road anyway?

You know what? I don't know.

North Dartmouth. It's almost in Freetown. It's way up looked it up this afternoon. Okay.

Because I was like, where is that road?

I never heard of this, but it's way up there. Okay.

It's It's up near um It's up the other Avent Gardens.

Avent Gardens.

Way up.

Is that Is that okay?

Decent size house, too.

Yeah.

Uh kind of bigish.

Was in rough shape, huh?

Yeah.

Um so the it's u a little sparse on detail but um there's nothing said about it just the condition of it now.

It's basically house and rough sheet whole house renovation including new roof. They don't make any indication about what they'll be replacing things with roof sighting or yeah, you know, interior is not really our our area, but um I think I think that I guess what I would suggest is that um I just send them a note or give them a call tomorrow and ask the question about um like for like on this

property and what the plans are. Um, unless you've seen anywhere in the in the attachments, a more description.

Uh, I which I don't I don't see. I just see I see pictures and I see one just floor plans. Um, so um can we re revisit it at the next meeting since they're not able to attend?

Sure, we we absolutely could. Um uh we we could do that in un in in case there's a any kind of urgency on it. Um then I can we can just pose questions to them. question that you have a call tomorrow. It is very vague and um I guess I don't know if there's any way to amend the form to you know Michelle to sort of say hey you need to have these these details

in the comment.

Oh okay okay well well why don't I I'll do that I'll I'll reply with comments.

Anything else that people want to know about this? If I if I reply with some comments, um, asking for more information.

Um, are they replacing the windows or are they restoring the wind? I mean, it's there's not a lot of information on any of that, right? And there was a um, thank you to Linda. There is a there is a Yeah, there is.

Uh, from uh, uh, not sure what year what year this is. I think it does windows window includes new roof windows and siding points on almost six acres.

H no no sighting I saw a sighting in that well um this this is from 2011 that this D was just the just like the asphalt sighting. Um well anyway I I will ask the questions that we would normally ask of them uh on the on the form and see what kind of answers I get and uh I'll send an email to everybody and let you know what I what I hear back

and we can at that point make a decision to either say yay or say hey come on next time we've got some more questions for you.

Does that sound fair?

Yep.

Okay.

Looks good.

Is there a DA D number?

Yes. 1013.

Yeah. 103.

This is the Lena Burrows house.

Lena L E N A Burrows.

L. Okay. And what?

Burrows is her last name. And she was a Swiss immigrant and a widow.

Yeah.

What's between historic name and common name on the D? Do you know what that means? There's two different names.

Well, it's what the the neighborhood knows it to be.

Oh, okay. Jacob, that's the Jacob Le Paul house. Um, but I guess historically it's the Lena Burl's house.

Okay. Well, well, anyway, I'll ask the questions. I'll let everybody know what what we hear back or else you could just log in and see what the responses are.

Okay.

Okay. Good. Well, then we're not going to take a vote on this, I guess. Now, I just go ahead and uh um put it aside for the time being and I'll I'll make sure that I do that. And uh just want to um well thank Linda, but something that Sue does all the time as well is bring in the D of this and take a look in inside the files. And I think that one of the

things that um that I'd like to do is make sure that we um pointing mostly at myself do a better job of looking in the files and looking at macros to figure out um you know what what our our historical um uh anyway our historical view of the houses are so that we can give at least give a copy to uh to the appellant and also so that we can know better you know what

what's going on with the house and see if there are any inconsistencies like Sue was able to point out earlier uh with two different D.

Is there a password to get into the site or anyone could just go into it macros?

Yeah.

No, anybody can go into it.

Okay. I've done it before but we're hope but I was on the commission there. I thought that you know. Okay.

I think you just have to agree to not do anything crazy on the side, but yeah, it's not not a big deal. But we but anyway, um so there's that. And so, um, does anybody want to volunteer to be a person who is in charge of looking at these, uh, demo applications and, uh, in addition to doing the work that we normally do to to uh, look at them for, you know, like forlike changes and ask

the questions that we have to actually go on to Macros and look in the files in our office, which I want to show you guys around. It's just around the corner there. Okay. um to to do that just to make sure that if you know I think it in my recollection it occurs maybe once every two or three meetings that there's actually a been an inventory done on a house and there's a D number and a

historical record at the state state level but uh but I it's it's a very good idea to be doing this. Is there anybody who wants to do that kind of thing?

I do it anyway. So, I would be willing to do it if you want to if you want me to collect the the the uh forms, the form bees.

I I would be grateful if you would, Sue.

And then if you if you uh can just be sure to bring a copy for the people who come in or whether it's the builder or the homeowner. Um I think that's a really good idea is to send them on their way with uh with all the information we have about the property.

Um thank you for doing that for Yeah. If gets the form, if she gives it to me, I can upload it right into the portal for the applicant.

Well, that's a great idea. Yeah, because then it's they've got it if they want. It's not just, you know, paper floating around. They can print it out as they want. What do you think about that?

Yeah, because we don't always have the the um owners attend the meeting. It's usually the contractor.

That's a good That's a good thought. And that way and we can just make a mention of it that they that it's there. And uh that's a great idea. Thank you, Michelle. Okay. Um, good. So, I I've got some some work to do with the uh the owner of the the uag road house. Um, so what we're going to do is for HDPR25-50 road um I will go back and um on the

portal uh make some ask some questions and start a conversation with the owner about what they really intend to do with uh with this property.

Okay.

So, okay. Well, let's move on from from that. Um, so that's the last of our demo applications. Um, other business.

Do we have other business? I've got a couple things if uh anything on the uh plumber.

I'm still waiting for Tim to is set up an appointment so we can go out there.

Um, just I guess the thing that that I was working on it, which is this the uh paid arm sign. Um, just that uh paid business association agreed to pay for it. They haven't sent me a check yet, but but I've picked up the sign and it's ready to go, but the ground's just too hard to put it in. It's going to be going uh right by the Harbor Masters cottage. It's a dual double-sided sign,

so people can see it coming and going over Bridge Street.

Nice.

Um so I think it's a nice looking thing and it's consistent with the signage that we have elsewhere in town by the same folks who did it. Um I guess a question uh for the group is it based on that so that we don't um lean on the side of um you know only where there are old I guess more expensive historic homes is that do we have interest as a group to

uh try to do the same kind of signage at other historic areas um whether they have a you know their own commission set up uh or whether they don't. Uh I think there what are there four or five other ones in town? Something like that. You might you'd know a lot better than I would Sue, but um is that something that we want to try to um you know go out on

a limb and suggest uh or otherwise um take on ourselves? Is that of interest?

So that's not just Penum, but it's other areas as well.

I think it would be great. I'm I'm I'm a little confused because there's only one historic district in town and that's Russell's Mills, right?

Um I'm thinking more of um historic house plaque.

No, no. Um just a village sign.

Well, I'm just I'm blanking on the uh like for example down um Prospect Street, you're going into something corners.

Um there's there's there there's a there's a sign there you're entering this area now and I've forgotten what it's called, but I thought that there were different I don't know if they're villages or just wards or something else in town that got names.

There are precincts, but those are voting precincts.

Not not not precincts. Um you just have to sign homes that are requesting the No, nothing to do with that at all.

Nothing to do with that.

No. Um, and okay, let me go back and u and and and get some more information on that. I I think there are some other Well, like certain sections used names used to be had little sayings, you know, like moonshine corner or but districts. Yeah.

Yeah. Yes, Lynon.

Pardon me. Oh, yeah. Please, please. Uh, what?

So about 15 years ago, we did some road signs that are about the same size as a house plaque. And there's one on Bakerville Road. There's to designate the Bakerville Village area. There's one on Russell Mills Road near the old police station for the Aonaganset Village. Um there had been one on Gidley Town Road to talk about the Gidley town area. That one seems to have disappeared. There are about six or

eight of them that we had made and I'd say there probably three or four that remain but they're getting very very faint. So we you mean the commission?

Yes. The historical commission did do that. It was probably around 2005 or 2006 in that time frame. So that would be the thing that I think you're talking about because Hicksville has its own sign like the one that you're going to re put back together in Pram. Russell's Mills has its own sign.

Um actually two of them. Um so those would be the two you know other you already have those. Yeah. Were those funded by this commission?

Um or this was it a CPC thing? Yeah. Either or. Yeah.

All right.

So, I think we did about six or eight of them.

Okay. Thank you. I appreciate that. So, much better said than I did, but And if you look on the Bakerville Road, you can see what it looked like.

Again, it's gotten very faint with the sun sort of.

And what would what would we call those areas or districts? Are they are they colloquial names?

Villages.

Villages. Okay.

Yeah.

Okay. That's that's that's that's helpful. I kind of lack that that knowledge. I guess that's kind of that's what what I'm asking as a group. Do we feel like historical markers?

Historical markers. Um like I guess we've done in the past. Uh I guess people people steal them or have taken them. I don't know what happened to them but no plans back.

Okay. All right. Well, I guess just because we we put some money into one of them. um about half the money I guess that went into it we we provided that that you set up and then uh I went to the PBA and they provided the other half for the the sign. Um but is there interest or is it I guess I I think it's kind of in keeping with

our our mission to to do that kind of thing, but I could be wrong. So what do we think about that? If we're if we're going to go to CPC, we might as well get into a conversation with CPC before we come up with this plan that we maybe can't or can or can't implement.

Okay?

You know what I'm saying? Because if it's not CPC eligible, I guess you could do some kind of a fundraising campaign, but I don't think it's going to take that much money.

No, I think we paid about less than $200 for a double-sided sign. I'm supplying the posts for it because I have some laying around. But uh I think the whole thing might cost uh 1,200 bucks, something like that. Maybe a little bit more than that. But maybe they give us package deal. They seem to like us a lot over there at the uh at the sign place.

So um but it's a good good point. I can certainly ask the question of Buddy um if they'd support this kind of thing.

I I would I would certainly think so.

But um but I I will ask the question of Buddy. And you think that there are about uh I guess where where where could we or or I get get a better handle on how many of these villages the town map have that or do anybody know the answer to that question?

Maybe the clerks probably too where maybe the clerks sometimes they have okay uh literature they used to at one point.

Okay. Um I probably have something I can resurrect out of my file.

Okay. Well, I it just I just I thought about as we went through the process for the one that you know, gosh, it's uh a lot of our job is kind of beautifification education. Um that maybe it's a good idea. But, um I'll let's shove that for the time being because I'll go ahead and uh and I can I'll I'll ask the question of Buddy before we go down that road. But there's

really not a whole lot of planning to do other than figuring out where, you know, where their what the, you know, borders are for each one and the best place to put one, which might simply be where it was last time, but maybe a little further away from the plows. So, um, okay, that's that. Any any other old business or or any other business period that we have? We need some heat in here.

Need some heat in here. Um, I noticed that uh, Hatheraway Road is back on for the um, zoning board of appeals. I don't know that anybody No, no one was at the commission when that came up.

Okay.

Um, I was I don't know what that is, but there's a they're proposing a I don't know how many six buildings units.

uh not units but six buildings over on a big piece of property. It's like 150 acres off Haway Road. It's right at the junction of Sloum and Hatheraway Road.

Okay.

Um so just by the golf course there. Is that right?

It's across from the golf course. Yeah.

But next to the parking lot of the church.

Okay.

Yeah. But and that's in front of the ZBA now.

Yes.

Okay. So there's nothing there currently. It would just be Well, I mean we There are stone stone walls, concrete, uh walls left from old dairy buildings.

Uh Holly Herbster came when we were looking at it the last time and but since then she has done the the archaeological reconnaissance. So it would be if I guess if we want to get out ahead of it, we might want to take a look at the the reconnaissance survey.

So So that that's a good point. What do we think about that? I mean, stone walls are definitely uh in writing part of our purview and other historical markers.

Um I'm I'm not familiar with the space, but we could take a look. We had a the town had a big archaeological survey done that um actually I I've got I've got a copy of it at my house, but it's not sort of for general it's for our us to take a look at and for the town to use and the planning board to use, but it's not for general public uh uh

knowledge because it includes uh Native American bureau sites and things like that that that that uh folks don't want generally known.

Is it is it in our interest or something that's part of our duties to maybe make uh any relevant information from that study known to the ZBA uh as part of this application? Is that what you're what you're thinking about?

I if they I mean they should all they also have access.

Sure. Yeah, that's true.

They should maybe as a reminder maybe they don't.

Well, I don't I don't know how how diligent they are as far as things like that are concerned, but it wouldn't hurt.

Okay.

Um I I I agree with that. I not not to be another obstacle to any any builder or not having any particular agenda myself, but as part of the uh DHC, I think that if there are u stone walls there and historical markings that are important to the history of this town, I don't know if anything's being done with it that space currently. I don't even know if that makes any difference, but

um I just think as a point of information it would be useful to let to remind the ZBA of the information in the survey. Uh anybody feel differently about that or feel?

Well, I have to admit I I I cringe when they put a new nude a house development in it and they knock down the wall along the road. I go I just cringe. Oh, that beautiful old wall is being torn down.

I think about the person thereund years ago picking that thing up and putting it down.

Hand done basically. killing.

That was actually the site of an old dairy.

Yeah.

So, they still cleared the land and they marked off the boundaries with them. I mean, it's part of history.

Who's in charge of that? The boundaries.

It's it's it's so we don't have an address, but just the halfway road. I can look on the ZBA website or Michelle.

Michelle would Yeah. be able to I'm trying to think of who's it's not any uh development company that I recognized. I think it was Saxon maybe.

Okay.

Saxon properties.

Do we have any any jurisdiction to actually preserve the walls amongst the new construction?

Well, we can we can um say that they need to be repurposed. Okay.

So, they have to stay on site and be utilized in the new design somehow. Mhm.

I you know, we we have some ability to try to get a a building delay, but I don't know if that I think the idea of getting them repurposed is one that's probably, you know, more in keeping, excuse me, with what they've got going on. But maybe the ZBA will disapprove it. I have no idea where that stands.

But what I'll do is I'll ask Michelle uh about the ZBA number and the address and that kind of thing. And then um I'll send a note through her um either I guess citing the exact pages in the uh uh in the in the in the document from PAL that that uh Holly worked on. Um that's the public archaeology laboratory just so you guys know. It's a okay it's a it's a company that we've done

some some work with over the years to do inventories and that kind of thing and they're really good at this kind of thing. Anyway, the town paid them to do that and we got that. So, um I'll I'll I'll do that because I think it's a I think it's just a good thing to do.

Um so, thank you, Sue, for bringing that up.

Um I would like Oh, so pardon me.

So, um the um zoning board will have a meeting on Thursday the 8th at 6:00 p.m.

on this particular development.

6 PM. Is there an address for the development or ZBA number?

Um no.

Okay.

Saxon som partners.

Okay.

Okay. Well, I will look at the uh at the report tonight and see what I can figure out see what I can forward to them and I'll CC everybody. Um thank you Linda. I would like to um as you know I've been want I've got some ideas for a a planning meeting for us in this month and what I was thinking about and this is a discussion not a anything else I

was thinking about maybe a uh three or four hour meeting uh maybe with a working lunch get some pizza that kind of thing maybe and I know you've got a business to run during uh during the week and that's important and two people at least and uh and so um If it's if if people are okay with it, I would be happy to do this on a Saturday. Um maybe

like from 10 to two or we knock off whenever we're done with some as I say with some What is it? What is this for?

This is to plan our activities for the next year. And I've got some ideas for some different initiatives we can work on. I think what I'm going to what I plan to do is send an email uh to you all um with some ideas that I things I've been thinking about and things that I've been seeing on the um um the um Mass Historical Commission bulletin board. People ask questions about this.

People want to do this initiative and I look at some other towns and I've just been taking some notes to myself. Hey, that's a great idea. We should do something like that. And and so that's the kind of thing I'm thinking about.

And then maybe also um uh if they're uh kind of in conjunction with that uh maybe divvying up some some of the responsibilities um like we just uh Sue very kindly stepped forward to do the um to do the uh uh the DS uh for for these meetings and I I know Bev does a ton of work with uh uh is the recorder and the secretary of the meeting. That's a lot

of work. Uh there are other things that we we we could and should uh u divvy up things like that. But basically I want to come up with some more ideas to make this um commission a bit more um noticeable in the town and a bit more vibrant and maybe sort of um and maybe find I I I would like to find some more worthy projects that we could start thinking about and building on.

Question.

Yeah, please. Yeah, go ahead.

I I think in the past last minute you said we have a lot of funds that we need to to work on.

Yeah. I I was wondering if we could offer grants to historic homeowners to actually restore their homes in historic type of elements versus just vinyl siding everything. I think we're losing all the historic character. Many towns I I c oh they vinyl sided. There's no more detail. It covered all our history of detail. Maybe we could we could offer grants, but we'd have to we work with

them about the products they're using to restore their homes.

this this this is only available as public funds. So, we could not give it to a private homeowner. Um it we we pushed them as hard as we can to either if they're going to use vinyl uh use something that is uh uh there there are some good substitutes out there that are like like AAC for Cedar Street. I totally understand and agree with what you're saying, but this has got to go

toward u sort of communitywide benefit and not individual homeowner benefit.

Um, you know, one of the things that just that I was been thinking about and been doing a little bit of work on is, um, talking to some other architects about, I would love to get some, um, to create a an annual community preservation award or set set of awards for people who do a good job.

So whether we give it to builders, homeowners, or architects, or all three, maybe give uh, you know, uh, silver, gold, bronze or whatever, whatever.

Maybe that's too ambitious for the first year, but a lot of towns have those kind of things. I've talked to some other towns about how they do it, how they run it, and they've got an awards kind of banquet sort of thing. Um, you know, I don't want to bite off more than we can chew, but if we I I think I think that that kind of thing might be interesting

because it's because of the point of pride uh for homeowners to do. And um I think it's all good. That was a proposal when I was in Rahobitth to give rewards for people to to restore their homes.

And your house got an award.

What?

Your house got an award.

Yeah. Oh, it did.

That's great.

I might have It's a while ago, but yes, Phil, I dismissed.

Oh, and I'm going to kill over I didn't know that. I'm sorry. Please go ahead.

We can catch it.

We're We're so all I wanted to ask before people go is is there a is there a day or a weekend that works works okay for for people here. First of all, is a Saturday okay with everybody and we all have jobs and stuff we're doing.

I'm okay.

Is there anybody would not work for?

Depends on what weekend.

Okay.

The 23rd I'm I'm I'm out of town though.

23rd. This is exactly what I want to know. So 23rd is out.

Um so the other Saturdays we have are Thank you. Um are uh we got the we got the 10th, 17th, and 24th. you're out of you're out of town that whole weekend of the 23rd 24th Columbus that weekend.

So this weekend, a little soon uh potentially, you know, it doesn't make any difference to me. It could even be February, but January 31st is another Saturday. So we've got uh basically I would say I think 17th is too soon. The 10th is too soon. Either the 31st or maybe the 7th uh of February are are potential things. Anybody off the top of their head have a problem with I can't do the seventh.

You can't do the seventh. Okay. Okay.

This is good. Um, so the 23rd and 7th are are out and I can't do the weekend after the 7th.

Okay. So 10th are out out for planning. Okay. So I'll suggest a Saturday that's not one of those times and we can just beat it up back and forth over email and find a good time.

So, I'm thinking now either the 31st or the of of January or the uh the 14th of February.

Okay. So, either 31st or 14th uh are possibilities. I and I'll put something out there and I'll have some ideas of my own and and we'll just uh we'll come up with an agenda beforehand so we're not wasting our time and we get there and and it has to be posted.

Yep. We'll post it and uh absolutely Phil any any time any objections to the 31st or 20 14th before you go 31st of de of January or the 14th of February?

Yeah, I'll be turkey back then. I'm not okay. Get out of here. Thank you for coming.

Thanks. I appreciate it. And um any any other any other business folks?

I just had a couple questions at the end.

Sure. Okay, let's go ahead and um I'm going to make a motion that we uh we adjourn uh this meeting tonight on uh on January 5th. Um can I get a second?

Second it.

All in favor? Okay, we're done.