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The Historical Commission met on September 14, 2026, to review administrative matters, demolition applications, historical plaque requests, and prospective membership. The Commission approved the minutes from the July 6, 2026 meeting following discussions on ongoing matters regarding 88 Hancock Street and the carriage barn at 37 Middle Street. Demolition application HDPR 26-31 for 28 Wilson Street was tabled due to the lack of submitted plans, photographs, and representation from the applicant. Plaque applications for 569 and 263 were also tabled, as was the plaque request for 5 Naganza Street pending the completion of ongoing construction and further review of design integrity guidelines. The Commission interviewed and voted unanimously to recommend Jesse B. Sisson Manning to the Select Board for appointment to the Historical Commission. Additionally, the Commission discussed leadership changes given the Chair's upcoming part-time relocation to California; members reached consensus for Sue Guiducci and Bev to assume co-chair duties. Finally, the Chair provided an update on efforts with Town Administrator Cody Haddad and DPW Director Timothy J. Barber to resolve sightline concerns and re-erect the Padanaram National Historic District sign.
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City Officials
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Let's go ahead and call the meeting to order. Is the meeting started already?
0:05No.
0:06No. Just beginning. You're welcome. Come on in.
0:07Is this the planning?
0:09No. Planning is No, planning is there. They've been relocated to 304, I think.
0:17I can't hear.
0:18304.
0:20304.
0:21304 for planning, I think. So, yeah. Thank you.
0:24Thank you.
0:24Yeah.
0:26Hi there.
0:27Sure. Okay. Well, this first of all, this meeting is be recorded by Dartmouth Community Media and um first thing you can do is take a look at the minutes of gosh, it says July 6th, 2006. Was that the last meeting we had?
0:42Nothing in June. I guess I've kind of forgotten or nothing in uh August.
0:46That's right. So, I've got them. Okay.
0:50So, do we have to approve the minutes for July for May 4th? Well, she didn't put it on the agenda, so it'll be she forgot she'll put it on the next one.
0:58Oh, okay. Okay, fair enough. Okay. Uh, if you've had time to review the minutes for July 6th, there were two corrections and and and Michelle caught them and she changed them. So, Oh, excellent. Excellent. Good, good, good. Um, so can I get a a vote on approving the minutes for July 6th? If there no further objections, I actually have some questions about the um minutes. Uh we had at that meeting we
1:28had discussed there were some questions we had for 88 Han the owner of 88 Hancock and we haven't yet heard what the outcome was of you know as far as the response. you know, I wrote to them right after the meeting and uh and I think I posted something in the uh on on the gov site and I don't believe I got anything back from them. So, I need to
1:56go back to them and and and ask about that. So, I guess it's not wrong to say what's stated there is not wrong. Um but it needs action. Um, so, uh, I will do that and I'll I'll let everybody else know what what what transpires or what I hear back from them. I think I better just call them. U might be the best way to go go about that. Um, okay.
2:21I just I just noticed too it says on precious agenda instead of previous.
2:25Yeah, that's I just noticed that too.
2:27Yeah.
2:28And um 37 Middle Street. I know that you and um Linda had gone there to talk to them about the carriage house. Mhm.
2:40And you were going to report back to the commission.
2:45Okay. Um I I I believe that the if I could just ask Linda, what was your recollection of talking with uh with with James with Bob Long?
3:03Bob with Bob Long right in that house.
3:06Both we both went there and talked with him.
3:10Um yes. So with regard to 37 Middle Street, we did go we did chat with them.
3:15Um it did appear that the foundation was not stable and if they are to continue with any kind of renovations that would need substantial work. Um we did take some photos which we can um develop for the files. Um, in going through the background on that property, the only form B that we have is from 1983 and um, we need to update that. So, as you're moving forward with a new list of
3:44inventory forms that you need to put into process 37 Middle Street should be one of the ones to add for a new list.
3:53Okay.
3:55Excuse me, man. I'm just going to leave this here. The meeting is going to be here at 7:00. Okay.
4:00So, I'm going to So, leave this here and I'll be back in about an hour.
4:03Sounds good.
4:04Thank you very much.
4:05Thank you. So, no form B. So, that's correct. Now, I'm sorry I recollect that. We I I I talked with them about the possibility of of uh of talking to the building department about getting a um being able to do work on it. He said, "Look, it's it's it's would cost too much money to to do And so the decision he had at that point was just just tear it down. That's my
4:31recollection. Just just going to tear it down. Um we took a lot of pictures of it. Um and there there is there are you know there's some very interesting architectural uh detail to that uh to that that barn. Um I don't know what else is but if anything else has been done any other action been taken uh on this HDPR since then.
4:54Can you speak about the window in particular? Sorry, I know you have to keep getting the door the door window the the uh window over the door.
5:02Linda had just mentioned that there was an unusual window. Let me see if I can pull up a So, while we were there looking at the property, um it became apparent that there were a few architectural elements that were very interesting and something that if they were removed from the existing building could probably be reused for the future building. Um it included a window on the um west elevation
5:30um as well as the doors on the um entrance to the building barn doors. Um so um on this on the north side of the building.
5:41So the um window I think maybe is on the northwest elevation and the barn doors are on the west elevation. but some interesting architectural elements. And he did say that he would try to replicate in the new structure, the size and style of the existing building which is not visible from the street. The house and the garage um are visible um but this particular building is not visible from the street and probably
6:09won't be in the future either the way the property is situated.
6:14Thank you. Was he asked if he did not intend to use either the doors or the window, would he offer them for someone who would be willing to?
6:26I think he intends to reuse them.
6:28Okay.
6:28In an appropriate way as best he can.
6:32Okay.
6:32He likes them, too.
6:34Yeah. I think he's he he feels genuinely sad that it it just it's not really worth uh from a financial perspective, not really worth it. Um, so I think he Yeah, I think he did say he intended to use the the windows.
6:49Um, so we can circle back with him and and uh and ask that question. Certainly, if he's not going to use it, um, we can ask that it be offered up to somebody else to use.
7:00Now, I thought, and I could be wrong, but I thought we asked him that and he said that they would meet code because they were lead windows and you can't use lead windows now. You mean like leaded glass?
7:14Mhm.
7:15Because they were old.
7:18I don't recall that. And I thought we had it in the minutes. I could be wrong.
7:27Um, yeah, it just says hail bail door.
7:30Hey, Baldor. And Robert Long was unsure, but didn't think so as it would not meet code. So, I guess I didn't catch that that nuance that by door it would mean because of the leaded glass windows. Not not not sure.
7:46And I don't know if um you know I thought I thought there were some historical reproductions being done now that included let it well I think he wants to tear it down and rebuild. So if he rebuilt whatever it is the ADU, right? It would have to meet current code on the windows.
8:09Okay.
8:12I I guess what I'm saying is I'm I'm not I'm not I'm not positive that letting glass in a would be would be disallowed. I mean, I know that's not it's not code, but I'm not sure if that would be a a deal breaker. Um, just because I know historical reproductions often include PL of glass to to give it an authentic feel, but I don't know the answer to that question.
8:37Uh okay.
8:41But I I think it's worth u um reaching out to Jim again and I'll do that and I'll CC everybody.
8:51Thank you again, Linda.
8:54Um, okay. So, that's about any more any more questions or comments about the minutes from July 6th?
9:05Okay. Well, all in favor of approving the minutes for July 6th.
9:11I Any opposed?
9:14Hearing none opposed. Um, uh, all um, what do I say?
9:22passed unanimously.
9:23Oh, passed unanimously the minutes uh for July 6th with the uh with the uh takeaways and to-dos that we've talked about already.
9:35Okay, we've got just one demo application tonight. Um I believe sir might be you HDPR.
9:43No, that's the potential um historical commission member.
9:48I understand. Understand. Um, do we have anybody here representing HDPR 26-31?
9:54Doesn't look like it. Uh, 20 28 Wilson Street. This sounds familiar to me because last month we had 18 Wilson Street.
10:03Okay.
10:05whenever that was July.
10:24You said they still don't have the pictures.
10:27No pictures and no plans.
10:29And no plans. So then I guess I propose that we just table it for the time being. We can't really do anything with it, right? And nobody's here to to speak to it.
10:39Nope.
10:40Um so we're going to table this and I'm going to have Michelle let them know that we need to have plans and pictures.
10:47She I think she's already indicated that in the portal.
10:51Okay.
10:52Okay.
10:58Oh, let's demo the whole thing and build a brand new home. Okay. Yeah, we don't we don't have that. Um Okay, good. Um so I would say that um so any any other any other business related to demos this time? No.
11:18Um I want to go ahead and say that um the plaques um I need to do more work on 569 street. So, I'm going to take these off for the time being because these are both homes that belong to me and I'm take take I want to take it off consideration for the time being. 569 263 is complete. Um uh but I also do not have the uh the paperwork with me on that. So, let's go
11:46ahead and table both of those uh if we could. And thank you for if you I'm not sure if you provided the form B um Sue for 569 or if that came from Well, I just I just took it out of the office.
11:58Yeah. Um I just I just haven't got a chance to go to the uh the Bristol County Deeds office to do that one yet. So, so we've got uh let's go ahead and go with Deborah Haffen Refer 5 Naganza Street and uh that that home and the plaque application which was very extensive um if we had a chance to take a look at that Jeff. No. Yes.
12:25Well, what are you referring to? The the Well, we Yeah. The application.
12:31Yes.
12:31Yes. And also I asked Sally Aldrich and Judy Lond who are both um historians for Nonquit to provide information to us on that property. And Judy provided the recent photo, okay, of the house. Um it's in the packet and uh Sally provided all the um historical photographs.
12:59Okay.
13:03Um, is there anything that you found in the packet to be not historically correct that you learned otherwise?
13:08Well, it's not so much that it's not historically correct. It's that the house no longer really looks like the house did historically.
13:21And I think that that can be that's for me that's an issue, right?
13:26And the construction hasn't been completed. So, how can we endorse a historical plaque if the work hasn't been completed? And if they seriously want a plaque, they can always do it. We just can't endorse it, that's all.
13:46Um, is that something that we've taken a position on as a board before, whether it's essentially a similar house physically or not?
13:54I mean, I would ask Linda that question.
13:57She's been here longer than I have. So, I haven't seen any photos.
14:03Well, just in general, if if a of a home is, you know, way outside of the scope of what it was historically, two of them, and we don't have any um a second.
14:19Where's the old I'm trying to find them.
14:25I have them on my computer if you want.
14:31That should include whatever. Those are the photographs with that blue tint.
14:36Those are um the photos that came with the application and the others are that also came with the application.
14:48That is not And then these came with the application.
14:52These are the these are the current front and back, right?
14:56and Sally Aldrich's photos are in here somewhere, I hope.
15:07So, yes, I would agree that um it would be timely to ask the homeowner to complete the construction and then give us the photos and see what we think of everything at that point.
15:22very warmers all over the place here didn't exist in the original construction. So it is going to look a lot different.
15:31No, I don't understand where the other photos are from. I mean I think this is all just house wrap. So this is probably essentially what's going to look like unless they're doing something more drastic to it.
15:41But um I don't see the the um the old photos. I don't know. That's the only one. But there were Let me see if m uh is Michelle. No, she's not in the planning board meeting. She should be in the office.
16:02Thank you.
16:02Thanks.
16:10Linda, would you just do a favor of just introducing yourself and as a former board member as that's the expertise we're relying on here?
16:18Um yes, I'm Linda D. Roshan was the former um member of the commission about 20 years ago and I do have a master's from Boston University in historic preservation. So I have done quite a bit of research in the Dartmouth area of historic buildings and just trying to see what photos might represent the current structure versus the historic structure.
16:50Well, let's look at it this way. So, we don't we don't we can look at this more, but is there a precedent in your time that you can remember that said if somebody wants a plaque to commemorate a building as it once was and found, you know, on this date? Is do we have any kind of precedent for saying no, it's very different now. And you really the we can't really give a plaque for that.
17:12Um that situation has not arisen in my recent um memory. So it would be a first and if the structure is really much different from what it had been, it would be a decision that the commission would have to make at this ch point.
17:28And of course you she's welcome to get her own plaque. Um yes, for sure. We're not going to we can't stop that. But um I guess I guess in lie of of maybe one thing we can do is just is take a look at the pictures in aggregate and make a decision about this and we may not be able to do it right now I guess is what I'm saying
17:49right I I would more of the construction to be completed and see if we have photos that represent the front facade and any other elevation um to see if we can find one that is Michelle said that to everyone.
18:11Are there any guidelines for how much of a house's original construction and appearance needs to be there for them to get a plaque? I mean, what are we basing our decision on?
18:24Right. Um, again, is it 30% changed, 50% changed, or we just How do you measure that anyway?
18:32I know it. I'm just wondering if anything exists.
18:35I don't think the question has come up in the past um in a way that needed an answer that was that specific.
18:44Um and so there isn't really any guidance.
18:49I can I I don't know if we've done anything on that. That's it's a good question, but it's I think it's something that I would like to just ask MHC overall just if somebody else has done that and maybe it might be worth instantiating if if we're interested in just sort of saying, "Hey, here are the rules and guidelines and um that kind of thing." But so and and we don't really know if we're
19:09looking at the same elevation in the photos that we're comparing. So, um, it it would be worthwhile to probably make a site visit and just say, "Okay, we have this elevation and this elevation in historic time. Show us what those two elevations are going to look like moving forward." We don't know which ones are which right now from what we've got here.
19:33I don't think fair. Yeah, you're right.
19:36So, how can you say they're going to be different when we don't know what we're really looking at? But on the other aspect of giving out a plaque or allowing a plaque, it's based on the fact that they've done the research to identify the correct year and builder or family or whatever. It hasn't been based on the look of the house. Is that true? Mostly true.
20:02Mostly. Yeah. Because most houses haven't changed their general appearance in a significant way. So the question has never come up before to this extent.
20:12So up till now it's been basically has the deed research and the narrative historical narrative in the site where it was verified right and is it still where it was and whatever photos we may have of historic nature are very similar to what the building looks like now. So, right, there would be no question. But if you were to take these two photos and say this is the same house, it would
20:38you wouldn't be able to find it.
20:39You wouldn't be able to honestly say that, right?
20:42So, I think we but the deed research verifies it that it is and it's on the site. So, so that's a tough call in a way to decide whether it's based primarily on the fact that the house is on the site and it did originally and if wrong and looked like this and if this house is inside of this new structure, right, it's there, right? I think the deed in my opinion I
21:14would weigh the deed research more heav much more heavily than whether it's been altered significantly as long as it's the the bones are there you know with some common sense thought about how much of it is original and can can you feel it can you see it enough is it you know I think particularly if if the work done since the historic photos has been um in you know in harmony with
21:44the designs um architecture of the building um the u I guess the vernacular of the building um and it sounds like she's made every effort to to do that at least she sound very very uh enthusiastic about that um and do we have we said you mentioned Chris um same location so um I was talking to a woman last week who lives on Pleasant street.
22:10She has an historic house, but it was it was moved three blocks uh 150 years ago.
22:15Does that does it still one one pleasant? I don't know.
22:19Does that does that still it was moved, you know, three blocks away?
22:23Mhm.
22:23Um is is that is it the house or the location that we're we're we're noting with a plaque?
22:31The house. The house.
22:33Yeah. So, is it is it is it gerine to the point of of disallowing it if it's been moved, do you think, as a group?
22:41No.
22:42No. And I No, I've just found some criteria that do seem to apply to this and one of them is design integrity.
22:54Okay. Where was that from?
22:56Is this from our site or?
22:58No. Well, I just put in for uh guidelines uh rules and regulations for getting historical plaque in Massachusetts. And it just says it's it's not governed by the state, but by the individual towns and communities.
23:11And there's some core requirements.
23:15Oh.
23:15That that they list that should be followed.
23:19Would you send that to me? Yeah, if you can. I appreciate that. Thanks.
23:22That'll be nice to see. And maybe we just my thought was maybe we should make we just have easily accessible our own version of this not necessarily harder but just stating what we think is the right thing to do right you know we did a form but I don't think we ever did a criteria so anyway that's good that'd be good to so if we table this because the house is in
23:44well I I'll say that that uh that she should um complete complete it and um I'll let her know that we consider at the time And I guess if if there's is there if it's not if it looks very different even at the same similar elevation are we inclined to say no no no officially.
24:07I think we should look further at the guidelines that be sending around.
24:10Okay, that's a good call. Well, I will let her know that. Okay. Um it goes with the I know but these are the ones that are kind of important to the whole picture here.
24:21Thanks for going through all those.
24:22Put these back in the the office. Do I have these?
24:28Yeah. Okay.
24:30So, I I I'll I'll tell her to table that and we'll go back to probably all three of these um in October. And I'm again, I'm sorry about my I just been away for 10 days. I just have not done this at all yet. Um thank you for that. Okay.
24:49I'm Robert, by the way.
24:50Hi, Jesse.
24:51Jesse, it's nice to meet you. I'm sorry.
24:53It's uh Thank you for coming in tonight.
24:55I really appreciate that. Who Who brought you in here tonight?
24:58Um well, Sue I met um this weekend.
25:02Okay.
25:02Um but I did apply.
25:04Good.
25:05Yeah, that's great. Actually, we we could we could use uh your talents. I'm sure you have them. So um this is a I guess if I could if we could sort of move on to you. If this is this is what I would call a light meeting uh both in I think uh you know board members but particularly normally we would have you know five six petitioners with uh you know with maps and charts
25:30and that kind of stuff. And they could either be representing the homeowner themselves. It could be a builder or an architect. Um, and coming in and just coming coming in front of us and just hearing our questions and and giving feedback. And then, you know, generally speaking, what what uh what we do is we we you know, give our opinion about reuse of certain elements um and and trying to stay away from things that
25:54that sort of uh you know, uh I think lower lower the dignity of the building like aluminum siding and all that kind of stuff. and we do the best we can to find uh homes for reuse of of valuable sor architectural um insignia and other material that kind of thing. And uh that's a big part of it. Uh part of what we were just talking about now is people want historic plaques on their house. Uh
26:15you know in this town I think maybe Massachusetts historic means you're more than 75 years old. But uh but if you if there was a uh I I again I don't know if we have any similar rules around plaques or should maybe over a certain age uh maybe there's a we can point to the name of the person who built it and the year it was built. Um we've got a process for
26:36for figuring out stuff out. Uh in this case uh the the petitioner did a lot of the research and sent a lot of the pictures in which is great. So that's another um part of the job. and then liazing with uh with with the with the folks who've asked questions and want to do things and that kind of thing. Um yeah, that's kind of my pitch for form B's to these um things. I don't
26:59know, are you familiar with these at all? They're they're part of the um historic cultural resource inventory. Um the state keeps them all up in at Mass Historical, but different towns contract um to to investigate or have a professional investigate like Linda has in the past um different buildings. So, we'll make a list of buildings in town that have not yet been investigated and um then they'll do a there's a
27:32particular format for it. But um we're trying to continue the process of of doing more and more cuz as a house becomes old, you know, it didn't used to be, but now, you know, there's more and more all the time.
27:45And uh so we did a batch of those last year, this this spring we finished up.
27:54Um it was a smaller batch, but um in in the two years previous to that, it was quite a large one, but it's something we try to keep up with. Um and so guiding that process and reviewing the results before we send it on, pay the bill and send it on to Mass Historical is something we also do.
28:16Yeah. Yeah. So, so that's a multi-year process to try to inventory the town's u um buildings, a mix of both, you know, commercial and residential and and try to incorporate buildings from every part of town, not just, you know, quasi historic parts of town. Um and then and then uh so we we typically hire out for that to qualify people who could do that kind of stuff like Linda has in the past
28:39as Chris said and uh and we have a couple other contractors we've gone to uh for that kind of work but it's that's that that selection process and talking about it is kind of part of I would say each each year's work um and then and then uh in this this particular case this year um these two folks work leazed with the with the outside professional and you know made sure everything was
28:59done on time and in the right way because We we get money funding for that from the um community preservation act, CPA uh CPA stuff. Um so so we're we're we're responsible stewards to them for the money that they're spending on it. So we make sure it's all done right and then it get eventually gets sent up to Mass Historical Society at the state level.
29:22So that's another big factor. You know, other things there are other things. We're just being a little shy tonight. But there are a lot of other things we we do and and I think I think importantly a lot of other uh um plans that that that that that we have uh both for uh education uh preservation uh and and we have uh we have in as part of the uh CPA budget a
29:49lot of opportunity to identify and spend on worthy projects once we identify them. So, it's it's kind of a work in progress, but I think we've as we've talked about in the last year, we've got a lot of things that we want to do have lacked the people power and and to some extent time to to get those things done, new programs and such. Um, so that's that's kind of what we're what we're
30:11about. We think we're important.
30:12Yeah. And even though it we look at older resources, we try to at least I try to spread it out because with 75 years is becoming, you know, more current than it used to be. So, even though like you heard tonight, there was that property at 37 Middle Street which has a carriage carriage barn that probably needs to be documented that hasn't been um and it's somehow been been skipped over. Um but uh it
30:49obviously if they're going to tear it down, it's it's important. It's also important to know if there have been any historical figures associated with the property. um that will also bump its like the recognition up if you will. Um, so even some of the and we kind of spread the the dates out a little bit because there are certain pockets in town which have been like smaller cottage type communities which were
31:20built in the the 30s and 40s that in some cases are in not so much in disrepair, but they're no longer the little tiny properties that they were.
31:31And it looks like that whole neighborhood the way it used to look is starting to disappear because people are building larger and larger structures.
31:41So we try to document those as they are.
31:44So we have a record of it.
31:48And there's also uh within this commission's purview is uh stone walls um historic cemeteries things like that.
31:56Um we it's just things we haven't been super uh um active on um lately, but there's certainly room to be. We've got in town, we've got a an expert who's documented all the local cemeteries and written a book about it. That's that's which is really cool. Former chairperson here. Um and uh anyway, that that's kind of part of the purview that we could perhaps spend more time on when we tackle the things that are are
32:20important.
32:22Yeah.
32:24Do you have any questions for for us as a group?
32:27No. No. It seems very exciting though.
32:30How how long have you lived in town?
32:32So, I have only lived in Dartmouth since May.
32:35Okay.
32:36May of this year.
32:37May of this year. So, I Oh, welcome.
32:40Thank you. Yeah. So, we my husband and I bought our first home in Dartmouth. We were right by Destruction Brook. So, we're on that road, Slate's Corner.
32:49Slates Corner Road. Okay.
32:50Off of that road. Congratulations.
32:54Yeah, thanks. Um, so I love the area and I am a lawyer. I do primarily insurance defense work in Rhode Island. Um, but I have in the past done a lot of um, land use law um, in Rhode Island as well, different types of land use, beach access, things like that. Um, and then before that I actually worked in a historical house museum. Um, in it's called Namkeg. It's out in the Birkers.
33:27It's like an estate house of a lawyer from Boston. Um, or I guess they're kind of from New York, but um, so it was an estate home that is now a museum. So that's where kind of my love for old houses and cool stuff comes from. So yeah.
33:43The house you bought, how how old is it?
33:45Oh, was a build.
33:47Oh, okay. All right. Sorry.
33:50There goes my There goes my plaque.
33:52Listen, live long enough and you'll and I'll I'll be in here.
33:57Your neighborhood's old.
33:58Yeah, your neighborhood's old.
33:59Not Abner Potter, but like, you know, the area is very old. I can I live right around the corner on Oh, okay. Cool. Oh, very cool. Yeah. So, I go to um Destruction Brook all the time and there's like that one foundation sort of off one of the trails of a farmstead from the 30s. I love that. Yeah. So, it's very cool. It's great area and I, you know, love to be involved in something. So, amen.
34:24Across from work, across from work, I don't do much else.
34:28So thought very happy to have you here and to meet you.
34:32Thank you. Yeah. Is there I guess my question would be what should I do?
34:37show up.
34:39Well, um I I I guess I guess uh Did Did you fill out an application form?
34:45Yes, I just split it over, but I took it back because I didn't want it.
34:48Oh, yeah. No, I understand. Um so, I guess it's the kind of thing that we we we would just uh Sorry. Go on, Linda.
34:56Ammeritus.
34:56I know. I've been trying to I don't know. Hopefully, it'll pick me up. They put a they put a thing over there list of activities and requirements of what a historic commission member would be doing.
35:10Do you still have that list that you could I I can I can send you to what could you spell your last name for me?
35:17So it's um man it's called Sis Manning.
35:20S I ss o n s i ss o nyen Manning.
35:25Right. Okay. Um, and what's a good email for you?
35:29So, it's going to be Jessie J E S E the letter B and then Manning gmail.com m.
35:38Okay. Um, gmail.com. So, I guess that um we would probably talk a bit more. I I haven't looked at your application yet.
35:50So, but it's a great time and I would I would love to have a new young smart person um involved. Um are we feel like we're ready to act on something?
36:01I would say so. Yeah. I would like to see more forward.
36:05So, I want to go ahead.
36:08No, you're Oh. Oh, it's like they're watching. They're watching. I'm sorry. Um, I would like like to go ahead and and make a motion that we we approve an application for Jesse B. Sis Manning, Esquire to uh to join the historical commission at this time. We'd we'd love to have him. Um, all in favor?
36:30Uh, any opposed? Okay, the eyes have it.
36:32Um, so we'd love to have you uh come and I'll go ahead and email you uh kind of an welcome and I'll send you the list of uh of sort of the duties that the basic baseline requirements that we make of people who come just to um just to do the work to review the petitions that come in front of us. Uh and uh and sometimes as you you maybe you heard
36:54we're sitting here um like Linda and I visited this this home and took pictures of it, that kind of thing, which is interesting. I think it is. Um, and I know that your schedule may may or may not permit it all the time, but certainly weekends are fine and that's f so it's good. So anyway, uh I think we could say welcome very much very very cordially and and also you need to be able to
37:15access the portal which I believe you won't have any difficulty doing.
37:20We we in the past crossed we'll see just as long as you get the the portal the the password and all that business.
37:27Yeah, you'll be fine.
37:28You know what? I I will I will uh I'll send you a note and we can work on just getting X to the portal, that kind of thing. It's all good. So anyway, thank you for showing up tonight and uh we're super super thrilled to have you.
37:39What about the select board portion of it?
37:41Oh, right.
37:41Oh, yeah.
37:42So So um you so you've written a a letter expressing your your your desire to to to do this. I will go ahead to send a letter to the select board saying that we've we've talked, we've we've nominated, we consider your nomination, we've approved it. Uh, and then what they'll have to do is they just rubber stamp it, but you've got to go for swearing in in front of the select board. They meet at the
38:02No, he'll swear in at the clerk's office.
38:04Clerk's office, but but you still have to I think you still have to appear in front of them. I think they meet twice a month.
38:09Just not a big deal.
38:10No, he only he he may not one time.
38:14He may not even have to go in person to the select board. That would be optional on your part. They'll they'll just go by our recommendation, I suspect.
38:22Oh, okay. I I did I had to go in front of the select board, but it but maybe that's not a thing anymore. I don't know. But anyway, um we'll figure out exactly what's got to be done and uh get it taken. I I think that you I think it still has to go through the select board. Whether you got to physically show up there or not is sounds like it's
38:38maybe not a thing anymore. So once that's done, um then it's a matter of just you get a letter saying, "Hey, welcome." And then I think you go to the town clerk and they swear you in, I believe. Is that right?
38:47Yes. Okay.
38:49Yes. Downstairs.
38:51Downstairs and at the end of the hall.
38:52Yeah. So, that's great. Um, first Monday of the First Monday of the month, six o'clock. Any chance your husband's interested?
39:01No, he's on the ad.
39:03Oh, okay. We split our talents. All right.
39:08Big sigh. Okay, that's good. But, uh, I'll work on him. We'll see what happen.
39:12All right. Well, anyway, very, very happy to have you in the town and, uh, on the commission, both this commission and the ad commission. So, grateful for you devoting your time, spending your time. Thank you.
39:22Okay. Um, any other business for tonight? It's been a I think Yes, Linda, please.
39:28I'm sorry. Who's that in the back? Who's that in the back?
39:31Like today.
39:32Okay. So, um, rumor has it that you might not be here too much longer and I have a question about the Peyton Naram National Historic District Register sign.
39:43Yeah, it's a great question. Okay, that's a great question. Let me get up.
39:46So, two two things. Two things. So, one is um I am, as you all know, I bought a house in California. I'm gonna gonna be spending time out there uh a matter of months. I have talked to the town clerk.
40:03I've talked to I've to had some correspondence with the town attorney.
40:07Um, and I've also researched u uh open meeting website and other places and I can't find anything that says that you c that I cannot be a member of this board if if I choose to be and if the board wants that um uh even though I don't even though I'm not living here full-time so long as my primary place to vote is here and I keep a home here
40:29which is my intention here. Um so so I I actually had some correspondence with a former board member uh about this um and uh who was uh you know eager to sort of say can't be done and then I pointed to a a some a statute that said that didn't disallow it in any degree and he said okay well you've done your homework. Um, so I don't that that's
40:53kind of my stance at this point is if the if the board needs uh another member, I think we've got a uh for us our allotment is was reduced from 9 to 7 and um so we have a quorum tonight which is which is which is great but I would like to continue to do things even even uh out of pocket if but the board should talk about that and make a decision without
41:15without me. Uh I would I guess I would would say uh and I probably should not be chairperson. Um so I think the discussion to talk about that we could do that now if you want to. Um um you know you may be in the running. So I'm just all I'm saying. So um but both of you have been chair people before I believe. Is that right?
41:38No you have not. I'm sorry. Um and Bev you have not.
41:41No.
41:42Okay. Well, then there's some uh but I know you're involved in many boards and you've got other things to do. U so I'm just not sure what that means. But um anyway, discussion regarding chairpersons. I guess we should talk about that right now. I'm I'm willing to do anything. Uh but I also am perfectly willing to just say um somebody else should be chairperson and I could I could call in or you could say you know
42:06Robert thanks for your service but um you know move on. So which is fine for me. U so self expressed my my opinion um thoughts for people um I I know that both you and Bev would be capable and we did have a little discussion about what might happen and we weren't sure whether you were going to be able to be here or not. Um, I think we certainly need to have as many
42:37members as we can have and your contributions have been excellent and um, so I would say that either either Sue or Bev, they could take on the chair position or somehow share the job.
42:53Um, that would probably be best. It would be good to have somebody who is here in Dartmouth physically um, be that person. I would I would say I do not want to do it myself again.
43:05I hear you. And I you know Bevon I know you you've been secretary for a long time and been doing writing things up and that's I would be more comfortable with Sue and I'd back her up.
43:17So we had already talked about co-chairing.
43:21Okay, good.
43:22So that's an option if you know if anybody wants to consider it.
43:26I I think I think that's an excellent ide.
43:31So, um, is it is it appropriate, do you think, to since you've talked about it already, is it appropriate to move to a vote?
43:38Do do you think you feel like you any more conversation need to be had about it?
43:43Then I would make a motion that u we have co-chairs of sueduchi making notes there and that you will work out between the two of you an arrangement that works with a backup.
44:02That's that sounds fine to me. Um okay I so all in favor of that motion.
44:07Somebody did a second.
44:09Oh I guess you're going to second it. You know what? I guess I guess uh can you guys vote on that? I don't know.
44:17So, it's a this is a tough thing. So, when I when I was when I first came to the board and I guess the board had a vote, but there were three more members at that point, right?
44:29Yes. Because it was Judy and Phillip and and it was also um Jamie.
44:38Well, that was he left before it died.
44:40Okay. Um, okay. So, anyway, I don't I'm not sure what the proper way to do this other than maybe simply to record that we decided to do this, which is sounds fine to me.
44:49We could ask for clarification.
44:51Yeah.
44:51And if we need to do it more officially at the next meeting, we could.
44:56Okay.
44:56We'll we'll have another member by then.
44:59Oops.
45:00Right. Right. Which which numbers are numbers are gets worn in right away. And I don't know that if make if it would make it so that I could vote for Bev and Bev could vote for me and then we would I don't know or if it has to be written as co-chairs and you have to vote on a single issue. I don't know.
45:19Not me.
45:19Do you mean for the purpose of deciding of that you guys are are co-chairs?
45:23Yeah.
45:24I don't know. Let's go ahead and just may let's go ahead and say that that's the way it is for now on. We should probably ask any I can do some a little bit of research and see what's required to have that happen. I think I I I don't know if if it has to pass a Well, anyway, the two members who don't have to recuse themselves vote for it.
45:45So, but then that's not a quorum.
45:47Understand? Um, so let's just say that we discussed and it was agreed that this is the direction we have chosen to go, okay? and that we're looking into whether we need to have a legal vote at the next meeting when we have more members.
46:06I like that. Um, and then you two will work it up between the two of you. If if from a representation point of view, if you Sue wants to sort of chair the meetings and and but you could work together in the background, that's great. Whatever. And then I guess I it would be my hope that you would um not now but uh maybe talk amongst yourselves about whether um you want me to remain
46:27on even if I had to to work out a way to do it via Zoom some months of the year.
46:32So that's something for you to think about that I really shouldn't be involved in. But I would h happy to do whatever works. I'm happy to be involved because I will maintain uh two houses in town here and uh vote here and do other things here. I just won't be here all the time. So, seem agreeable.
46:50Okay, good. Um, okay.
46:53Sign.
46:54Oh, the sign. Great code. So, the sign, we got a we had a great sign. Really nice sign. I took pictures. I sent it around. Uh, I I went to the select board. Select board said uh uh I showed them pictures. You know, they said, "Yeah, go for it. Put it up." So, I got some two posts. I got some cement, dug some holes and put it up in a great
47:16spot. Uh then uh I got some calls from Melanie Perry uh and um not sure if it was uh Cody at that point, but um saying, "Hey, did somebody give you permission to do this?" And I said, "Yeah, this date select board." I think they probably went look at the recording. They said, "Okay, well, we're we're going to have to take it down. uh we're gonna have to move it because it
47:39blocks the sighteline of people of drivers. I said, "Okay." So, it's been three months now. So, I've written to Cody. I've I went to go talk to Tim uh at the the DPW and um Tim's like, "Oh, yeah, sure. We'll it's we'll get it back up." Um and Cody had said, "Yeah, it'll be a week or two." So, so just just just for So, you all know where Water Street is
48:03and Bridge Street is, right? That corner there on the gravel is where I where I erected it. Now they said there was a sighteline problem is the way it was communicated to me. Then I went over it with with Tim on a map in his office last early last week or the week before and he kind of conceded well that's a oneway street. Water's a oneway street.
48:24There's no driver who's going to be parked going south on Water Street looking over the bridge and have their sight line blocked.
48:31Right. He said, "Yeah, I guess that's really not a sighteline problem at all."
48:35I said, 'Well, can can it go back there where it was? He said, 'Well, we'll find an appropriate place for it. It's the last I heard from him. I wrote to him uh a couple days later to sort of instantiate here's what we said at our conversation, and I haven't heard him back. So, it's frustrating to me. And also, the the uh paid business association um paid for the sign. I paid
48:56for the post and the concrete and that kind of stuff, but they paid for the sign. So, I forgot the name of the gentleman there who now is president of the PBA. He's an attorney right on um right on Brit Street.
49:05Mr. Russell.
49:06Russell. David Russell. That's exactly it. And so, I've been kind of corresponding with him. He said, "Yeah, I've been heranging them as well, but I'm sure it's not top of mind for him."
49:14But, you know, the season's gone and they kind of wanted this done. So, it's really disappointing, but that's exactly the status of this right now. Big this is a big sign kind of saying both sides saying, you know, welcome to Penram. and it had it was a National Historic Register listed uh I think is is the right terminology area in town. So anyway, that's where that's at. And I'm sorry, it's
49:40disappointing to me because I know that you personally did a lot of work for it and I dug I dug two big holes and got some screws and did some stuff and got concrete mix I brought my wheelbarrow over there mixed concrete and everything and then next thing you know um so I don't the action to take I guess I think it's kind of in Cody's town administrator's hands um because he said
50:03oh we got we got to work a few things out we got this is back in June so Um, maybe I'll try to go and see him. In fact, I will try to go see him this week about the sign because I think we've been getting uh uh not a great answer on that.
50:18Well, thanks for your efforts.
50:19Yeah, I mean that's a lot of lot of digging.
50:22Yeah, you know, um and it looked great. I sent I think I sent pictures to everybody. It was all, you know, Anyway, um so that's that's my my complete answer on that. But but you have my promise that I'll go see Cody this week about that and uh and see if I can get a different answer than I've gotten so far.
50:41Okay. Um I want to go ahead and make a motion that we uh go ahead and and dismiss our meeting or break up our meeting or adjourn. Ajourn is a much better word.
50:51God, I've been on vacation for a little bit.
50:54So anyway, um I'll make a motion that we adjourn tonight's meeting.
50:58Second.
50:58Second.
50:59All in favor?
51:01Great. Thank you very much.