Planning Board Meeting - January 26, 2026

All right, it's 7 PM. Good evening, everybody. This is the Town of Dartmouth Planning Board meeting scheduled for January 26, 2026.

As previously stated, the planning board voted in public to continue meeting virtually in accordance with the governor's 2025 extension of the virtual/hybrid open meeting option through June 30th, 2027.

Please note that this meeting is being recorded. At this point in time, we'll take a roll call vote. Kevin Estes here.

Billy Rosa here.

Margaret Sweet here.

Lorie Miller, yes.

Nick Cyclopis here. All right, that brings us to uh agenda item number one, which is public hearing. To get started, we'll need a motion to open that.

So moved.

Second.

Motion made by Margaret and seconded by Kevin Estes to open the public hearing for the planning board special permit PSP25-2 A13 State Road. Margaret, yes.

Kevin Estes, yes.

Lori Miller, yes.

Rosa, yes.

Nick Cyclopus, yes. Dan, you want to get us started?

Sure. Um I actually have a letter from the applicants engineer to continue but just before I read that into the record um just a brief update to all the board members. Um we met we meaning um planning staff met with the applicants engineer early last week along with the representative from the DPW trying to iron out all the um just little outstanding items. At that time um it was asked by the director of the

DPW for the applicant to get in touch with Stantech who is the sewer representative engineer for the town to um to have the sewer analyzed for the proposed use. Um so that kind of put us a little on hold to have that for the meeting tonight. So that is what they are in the process of doing. Hopefully we'll have some answers by the next meeting. Um, but we did receive a letter dated January 22nd, 2026. Chairman

Psychopatis, we respectfully request a continuence from our scheduled meeting with the planning board on January 26, 2026 to the meeting on February 9th, 2026.

Um, so if it's at the board's um discretion, I would um recommend a vote to continue to February 9th at 7:00 and then we could return to the regular meeting.

Thank you.

I'll make a motion to uh continue the public hearing and the application until uh uh February 9th meeting at 2026 at 7 p.m.

at 7 p.m.

Thank you.

I'll second.

Motion made by Kevin Estie, seconded by Helio Rosa, to continue the public hearing for item number one, 813 State Road Planning Board special permit to the February 9th, 2026 meeting at 7 p.m.

Kevin Estes, yes.

Y Rosa, yes.

Lori Miller, yes.

Margaret, yes.

Nick Cyclopus, yes.

At this point in time, we will need a motion to close this particular public hearing and resume the scheduled planning board meeting of January 26, 2026.

Mr. Chairman, we don't want to close this. We just continued. We just want to return to Yep. No problem.

Continue and resume.

Motion.

I think I tucked that into my motion.

But was it in it? If if it is, we are back in the January 26, 2026 planning board meeting.

Which brings us to administrative item number one. Um I'm hoping most of you saw your packet and tonight we have the agricultural commission with us. If I'm correct, somebody from the agricultural commission will open a public hearing on their behalf. Dan, if not, please advise.

Yes, that would be correct. So, we would just need um DCTV to authorize um the ad commission so that they could open their public hearing um and then present um their item for discussion.

Yep. DV here. Just let me know if there's anyone in particular should make co-host.

I can't share my video, I guess, because it's disabled by the host. Um hi, this is Karen from Sur. I think Karen Petelli would be the person you need to make a co-. There you go. Thank you.

Should be all set now, Karen.

Thank you.

Another correct.

How are you?

Hi. Good evening. Sorry, I was a couple minutes late. I don't know where I was stepping in here.

Um I just I just wanted Okay, I I don't have a video, but that's okay. Um I just wanted to start the meeting off by saying that um I had posted the meeting with the town as a joint meeting with the uh with the planning board which doesn't affect the way we conduct the meeting. It's just that that's that's how we generally do it. So technically it's not a public hearing. It's a and I

and I'm not sure at this point if I know if there's a distinction between a public hearing and a joint meeting, but at any rate, that's what we have done in the past. So that's what I that's how I posted it with the town so that as many members as that are on the commission can join as many members of the planning board that are at this meeting. Um, I

had asked Dan about having well Dan and Ross having this meeting because it's been a while since we've had an opportunity to discuss uh certain um certain initiatives that affect us both.

And I thought this might be a good time to open it up. Um it's actually on the heels of a of a uh Karen of course is with Serpent as you as you all know. Um the ADCOM had had a conversation with her about the possibility of writing a grant so the ADCOM could go for a um another cost of community services study which hadn't been done since 2008. and the community has seen some changes

since then. Um, and also the adcom has uh met with Dan and Ross. Uh, we had a meeting last Friday. Oh, I guess it's a no it's a week ago Friday now. Um, for prioritizing uh farmland parcels which was I think it was very wellreceived. It included uh conservation uh DNRT um and of course the agricultural commission. So we had a number of different uh entities there to discuss

that. Uh it was an exercise that we used to do. Oh, and it included parks and wreck. So, if there are any properties out there that are of particular interest to any one of those uh boards or commissions, we we've already started the discussion um on it. Um, and the other item that we were hoping to discuss tonight was the the potential for reducing the size of the farmhouse lot uh on an APR property or any

property that we end up exercising our right of first refusal. if we have the opportunity to uh reduce the size of the farmhouse lot.

So, I guess we could start with Karen if if you're okay with that, Sue. Do you want to have a camera?

Um, I mean they I mean I I they can I don't know whether I was supposed to send the list to Ross or to DCTV. So I only sent it to to Ross, but I can DCTV if you wouldn't mind just uh co-hosting Sue Guuchi, please.

Yes, Sue. Yeah, you've been made a co-host. So if you'd like to uh enable video, you're able to.

Okay.

And if there's anyone else in the meeting, just let me know. We kind of do it on a as needed basis now. So um just if you know the name of the attendee, the chair or whoever's appropriate can just let me know.

Actually Derek Christensen is the chair.

So if you would like to enable his camera, that would be great.

Okay, there you should be all set. You may co-host

Derek, do you have uh are you in contact with us?

Perhaps he's stepped away. Karen, is this a moment where you would step in until he's back?

Sure. Yeah. Um, that works.

So, yeah, a little a little background as to how I came to be here tonight. Um, I was doing an agricultural needs assessment um this past spring and summer. Well, sorry. Um, my name is Karen Pentelli. I'm a principal natural resource planner with SERPED. I have a background in agriculture um and I received a policy and planning degree from TUS recently before taking this position and um I was brought on

partially to help support um the agricultural communities in the region.

So I was doing a needs assessment and reaching out to adcoms throughout the region and um visited the um the ad commission in Dartmouth and um asked if there were ways could support them. And um Dian Sue mentioned uh this cost of community services analysis as a way to assist in making decisions around open space preservation and also given her involvement with the planning board and

other boards generally assist in land use decisions. Um, and so I went back to our team essentially and asked like if we can do that. Um, I'm in the environmental department and the comprehensive department. They're the people who handle master plans and other economic development initiatives, housing initiatives, and it would be our comprehensive department that would be doing this study. So I asked them if

they were, yeah, if this is in their capacity and something we can do, and they said yes and we'd be happy to do it. Um and we were um we talked about different scopes like there's different types of cost cost of community services analysis you can do. Um, we talked about doing one that was just an open space or doing a full one that includes residential, commercial, different types

of land uses and essentially to figure out what is the cost um to the community of each type of land use decision and yeah working with the ICOM and you know deciding that doing a full a full cost of community services analysis is is the best in a way just for like having a well-rounded um study essentially so that Dart representatives can best make decisions on your land use um land use

decisions. So yeah, so then there is this um ECO onetop is a new grant portal essentially that the state is offering where they combine a bunch of environmental grants into one application portal. And after Sue asked me about this, the Eco1top um announcement came out and I was like, "Oh, we could apply for one of these grants essentially in order to do this study." Um so we met with um both Sue

and my team met with the state and there's two grants that align well with this project and one is the EA planning assistance grants and then the other one is the MVP the municipal vulnerability and preparedness program. Um and essentially there would be different scopes uh depending on so essentially you apply for all of these grants at once and then the state kind of decides which which grant is more most

appropriate to your project. Um, so it would depending on what the state thought was appropriate if we were granted an award. It could either be a smaller scope with the EA grants, they have a cap of 50,000 and we would essentially do the study and then do some public outreach to help just present the study to the community. Um, and that would be with DNRT and the ICOM and you know other folks who are

interested essentially in you know bringing bringing the results to the community. Um and then the MVP grant that's um has a it's a much larger grant and and we could do a much bigger public education piece and public involvement piece along with that and also we could involve partners in the actual grant um and MVP they really like to see that. So um essent yeah so we came to this

decision essentially to that applying for this grant um could be a good idea.

We got a lot of support in our um from our expression of interest around its um uh competitiveness essentially. And one of the things that was mentioned by um so Courtney Rosha is the MVP representative for our region and she said that since climate has a big impact on you know all the costs all the land use costs and um and what they will be in the future if we included a a climate

essentially variable into the equation to see over time like how would these costs change because essentially you have the next unit cost right like what's the cost of the next house or the cost of the next agricultural, you know, field you preserve. But then if you look at all the factors involved, the overtime analysis looks a lot different than like just the next unit and you get a much fuller idea of what you the

impact of these decisions are. So um we were hoping to already do an overtime analysis. So, and if we wanted to go for the MVP grant, which is larger, we would also include a climate component to see how climate might impact um the costs to the community of these different choices. I just said a lot. So, um and sorry, I know there's like a lot of acronyms and things and I'm happy to

just yeah, pause and answer questions.

Nice job, though. I took a lot of notes and and was very very organized. So, I appreciate that. I'm sure we all appreciate it.

And I'm sorry I didn't get a chance to meet you all. I'm assuming you're all on the planning board except for those I recognize from ad commission and DNRT.

Is that right? Or Oh, we can just go down really quick.

Nicholas Cyclopis, chair of the planning board. Next member, Lori. Go ahead.

Lorian Miller, vice chair of the planning board.

Margaret, clerk of the PL planning board.

Kevin Estus, planning board.

Gileio Rosa, planning board.

Thank you.

So, is Derek with us by any chance or Yeah. Uh, yeah. Do you guys pick up on my audio?

We do now. Derek, good evening.

All right. Apologies. That took a while to get permissions going.

That's okay. Before we u Good evening and thanks for joining us. Before we jump into questions after what Karen presented, um we had called your name out. Is there anything you want to share um at this point? M M Mr. Chairman, if I could just add one thing real quick.

Um Derek, could you just please um tell us your last name just for the record so we have your name?

Sure. Uh yeah, Derek Christensen. I'm the chair of the Dartmouth A Commission.

Thank you. And I think Sue can talk well for us as well, but just to give a little bit of background that we've been having meetings um building on a work that's kind of quite outdated, which was looking at properties in the town and um this was probably 20 years ago, assigning an egg value, a recreational value, kind of a rubric score to say which of the properties are the most critical to be thinking about

preservation going forward. Um, so Nick has been convening meetings at the DNRT uh just last week and then previously in 2025 uh bringing people together uh from the ad commission and um staff members from the town and I think it's it's been a good process. It's helped get everybody on the same page in terms of awareness around which properties are sort of like the marquee properties when

it comes to a preservation coming forward. So, I feel like we're in a pretty good place as we look at uh things from that perspective. So, the cost of community services uh study um Dartmouth had one of these done uh in 2005, I think was the the year it was published through the American Farmland Trust. Um and we have access to that documentation, but obviously something like that is so outdated. Um, and what

I'm acutely aware of as a town resident is just the turnover in town and how many people were not here and present in previous conversations and the important value that we have to, you know, bring agricultural the conversation of what it means to preserve farmland, what that means down the road for costs for the community going forward.

Thank you.

Thank you, Derek.

Sue, would you like to chime in at this point?

from the last study that we did that we can, you know, leverage, you know, this other grant um should they request it.

Your efforts are greatly appreciated and um as as much as I do remember you Sue when I was came on initially, I believe you came before us a couple of years ago.

Kevin Melo I think was the chair at the time. So I I've had one meeting with you folks with the ad commission if my memory serves me right. But I look forward to knowing anything more than I know now in terms of cost of community services because the inability to answer these questions when the residents of the town ask us as servants of the town in this capacity when we're talking

about housing and mixed use and units and affordable or not the impact on the community and schools etc. all comes up and to be very transparent I can't answer those questions. So I I look forward to having such study and having such answers not only for us our decision making and our and what we do for the town but being able to answer the common questions. So uh

well let me ask you let me ask you this.

Would you be would the planning board entertain the idea of of giving us a letter of support for the grant when the time comes?

I I don't want to speak for the entire board, but I encycloped this am very much in support of having an accurate assessment of the cost of community services, especially when we're talking about developing units which are going to put residents in the town, students in the schools, students in buses, elderly looking for elderly housing. I think we need to know those things. So without knowing more at this point in

time, I'm very supportive of your efforts and I'd like each board member to feel free to, you know, share your thoughts.

Yeah, Mr. here. Um I I would any anything that can support any board in town to making the best possible decisions to take as much information as possible to to weigh and allow us to consider the impacts across multiple areas. I don't see how we wouldn't possibly endorse that.

Thank you, Hilly.

Anyone else in support of or Yep. Go ahead, Lori.

Yeah, Nick. Um I have well two things.

Um I'll make a motion to um write a letter to whoever we need to write it to. We may need to write more than one in support of um going for this grant.

We have a second.

That's a motion.

Second.

Motion made by Lori Miller, seconded by Kevin Estes to support the ad commission's efforts in securing a grant hereby stated as an EA or an MVP regardless to further assess the community services cost of community services. So Lori Miller has to send a letter in support whoever we need to send it to.

Lori, those last couple words were broken up. I'm sorry. That's to send a um a letter to whoever we need to send it to. We should send it to the ad commission immediately, but we may need to send it to SERD and to the granting authority too.

All right. So the motion made by Lori Miller, seconded by Kevin Estes, is to support the ad commission with a letter to them as well as any other entity identified to further assess the cost of community services by a grant hereby described as an EA or MVP that carried shared with us tonight. Motion's made by Lori Miller, seconded by Kevin Estes.

Lorie Miller, yes.

Kevin Estes, yes.

Margaret, yes. Julia Rosa.

Yes.

Nick Cyclopus. Yes.

Okay. Nick, I have one more. Nick, I have one more question.

Please go ahead.

Um, Sue, years ago, we talked about this and nothing was done about it, but I think this is a new planning board and I think maybe now it we can accomplish it.

We you talked about um I think presently a house a f a house a farmhouse has to have two acres of property and the ad commission had talked about trying to get that lowered. Am I wrong with the two acres and getting it lowered to maybe an acre or half an acre?

Yes. And that was actually on the agenda for tonight. But if that's something you don't necessarily have time to discuss in any length, we can always establish a subcommittee uh comprised of planning board members and adcom members to kind of um decide what direction we might want to go in because now there are complicating factors like imperous surfaces and and I think that planning board members might

have a uh a and I could be wrong but may have a better concept of to how do we we can approach the that that issue in particular.

I don't know if if Fred or Nick or Derek want to weigh in. I I can see that they're muted, but I don't know if they can unmute unless D um DCTV allows it.

Um, was this supposed to be something that could be handled by a zoning article at town meeting? I don't remember how this Yeah, I remember we all talked about it on before and it was just never accomplished. I thought it was a simple zoning um appeal at town meeting stating that the agricultural house as long as it the person was ag working on the farm could be um deleted to a smaller acreage. I

thought that's how it could have be it could be approached maybe um go ahead.

No, I was gonna say you're you're you're you're 100% right. you have a really good memory because now it's coming back. Uh we've just we have we have new members on the adcom as well and we've just recently started to bring this up at up at meetings. So, I thought it was a good time now that it's the winter um and we can sort of talk about how we

might be able to do this with a um a zoning article.

So, at one of the CPC meetings, we've discussed this. It's Margaret. And um I thought that we were going to have something presented to the planning board at a meeting.

Yeah. That's You mean how we were going to zoning? Yes. On changing the lots of of the house. Um, is it is it is it two acres for every farm or just depending on what zone you're in?

Well, if you're in residential, I don't remember all the zoning.

Well, if you're in a Yeah, if you're in a B, you need two acres, but if you're Yeah, but if you're not in in residence B, you know, you don't. So, I'm I'm just Li said two acres and I just I'm trying to question that because I don't know. I I wasn't on the planning board then.

Well, I just I think that I think that most of our APRs are in zones where a two acre All right. House is required. Okay.

Residence B then. Yeah.

Anyone else?

Dan, is that something that we can get you to work with the ad commission uh Sue or whoever they appoint the two of you to work on this and bring it back to the planning board, would that be a way to accomplish this?

Yes. If the planning board wants to authorize us to look into it? Um, my guess is that it's probably just single residents B that they would be looking for a reduction on, but the more information I can provide better feedback to the board.

How does the board feel about um doing that? Asking Dan to work with the whoever at the um ad commission to see what can be done about this because I think it's a simple zoning article.

Well, I think it's I think and I've said this at other meetings that I've attended and Sue is knows this. I think that two acres for a house is probably too much on a farm because they need all the land that they can have to farm.

Okay? Because it's it's hard to make money on a farm. So, I think I'm I'm all for it. Uh I'd like to see the house lot on a farm reduced and not have a requirement of two acres.

I have no sorry, you go ahead.

No, just to to answer the question, I have no objection to um empowering Dan to continue the uh the work.

Same here. My thoughts are consistent uh with what Margaret just shared and I'm on board with Dan taking this over.

Same.

Can I just ask if any of the other AdCom members want to weigh in on this? But I can't tell how they get unmuted unless do they have to ask DCTV or can they just click unmute?

Okay, I I can unmute. I'm I'm I'm very much in favor of any conversation that starts to look at what are ways that we can empower farmers to be profitable and viable going forward.

And I think, you know, does anybody the planning board should be well aware of the high cost of living in town and an awareness that there's sometimes dual interests at play when land is conserved and sometimes there's a risk that when we put an twoacre house lot on, does it make it an estate property that's attractive for a gentleman farmer? Um, that being said, as a a vegetable

grower, you know, there's infrastructure that's always needed in almost every farm operation. Uh, if you think about the fraies in the north side of town with their slaughter processing for a copa cut, uh, storage and freezers, um, it it can really be dangerous to limit farm buildings on on agricultural properties. Um, so I think one of the conversations is if we do look at lowering lot sizes for houses,

um, making sure that there's still language on properties that allow for the agricultural use buildings to be cited on site.

Thank you, Derek.

I def uh, sorry about that.

Okay. I definitely have some questions moving forward. Um, you know, this reduction that we're talking about, it's going to be a deed restriction. It's going to be subject to the use of farmland. It's in perpetuity. What happens later? Um, what happens when the reality of farming just isn't sufficient enough anymore? Maybe not in three years, maybe in 30 or 50 years. I don't know. So, I do have some questions about

the road we're going down. They don't have to be answered tonight, but you know, to to prove my point sarcastically but polite, farming in Brooklyn probably wouldn't be all that profitable based on the cost of properties and land and so on. So, I'm curious to hear from you folks the long-term implications of what's being presented and discussed tonight. Uh, not only for me to be better versed in it, but also to paint

the picture for everyone else to look at the bigger and broader picture.

Well, anyone else? Go ahead.

No, go ahead. Sue, go ahead.

Um, we talk a we talk a lot about food security.

We talk about food miles meaning would you rather I mean the number of miles it has to tra produce needs to travel from the west coast all the way to the east coast. I mean it's really going to have to be a preference on the side of the consumer. I personally don't want to eat food from across country. I'm I'm more than happy to spend a little extra money

on food that's grown in our own in our own town. So, I'm not sure that's going to be going away anytime soon, but I certainly have no idea what's going to happen in 50 years. But I imagine that people will still unless we're taking pills by then. I guess that would be my only response to something like that.

But I I don't disagree with local produce. I don't disagree with anything local. And there's nothing more enjoyable than surprising my wife when I stopped somewhere and bought something fresh on the side of the road a few miles away from home without being asked to do it as a husband. You get extra points that way. So I agree. It's it's wonderful and it's enjoyable. I just I want to

understand the nature of these zoning changes and the implication to the current farm as we know it and what the farm might be later and does the zoning stand change. There are people who don't necessarily benefit right now from zoning opportunities because of the zones they're in andor limitations and I want to be able to answer questions when they ask about this. So, if there's any

if there's any thought put into this reduction in terms of what it means today and/or perpetuity or not, you folks can share it now. If not, at the follow-up meeting or when we realign and we learn more, I think it's going to be something that needs to be discussed.

Um, may I talk, Mr. Chairman, please? I think since Dan's gonna meet with Sue and talk to Sue about it, I have some ideas, but I I'd like to share those with Dan when he's talking to Sue and get some answers uh from Sue and the the ad commission because uh on CPC, they've been before CPC several times and uh I think when we start saying in perpetuity and things like that, we have to really

know what we're talking about. Okay? As long as a farm is a farm, I have no problem because I feel I where I live at one time was all farms and now it's not.

And I feel bad, very badly about it because, you know, they could feed the town with what we used to have. We had lambs, we had beef, we had horses, we we had everything out here and now we don't. So, I'm a big uh supporter of the agriculture commission, but I think Dan and Sue are Dan and the other members have to get together and maybe we could all ask some questions that Dan can

maybe try to get answered if that's okay with you, Mr. Chair.

No, I I agree wholeheartedly. And to to be transparent, I'm not in support either in the word of perpetuity. That's why I want to ask questions and understand the implications of the changes. So, I'm on board with Dan doing exactly what you spoke of. Does anybody else want to support that and or add to anything this evening from the planning board?

I'll just reiterate my support that uh Dan talks to the the ad come and uh and and learns a little bit more and also brings uh uh the planning perspective to some of their uh their ideas. uh and a and a you know I think it it would be important for us to uh to to bring our ideas to Dan first.

Great. Thank you. Helio, I believe you mentioned earlier you're in support of this, correct? Of our actions. Great.

And Lori, yes, I was the one that brought it up.

Yep. Perfect. Perfect.

All right. So, uh Sue, Derek, Karen, and company, if there's anything further, great. We're here to listen. Otherwise, per the planning board, we'll let Dan interact with you directly and we will independently provide some questions and request feedback from Dan accordingly.

Thank you very much.

Sounds good.

Thank you so much for inviting me and for offering to write a letter. That's awesome.

Great.

Thank you all. Nice to meet you, Karen.

Thank you all.

Thank you, Nick.

Thank you. All right, we are on to administrative item number two. We have uh an approval not required for 100 Michon Point on the Scesser's map 11, lot 15.

Dan, you want to run us through that?

Sure. Um, as you mentioned, this is an application for an approval not required plan filed on the portal application process under PNR25-9.

This is for an address of 100 Michon Point Road, also known as Assesses Map 11, lot 15. Um, this plan is to reconfigure said lot into three new lots, um, subdivisions lot 1, 2, and three. These lots will be located in a single residence B zoning district. Um, the plan, as shown, would satisfy section 1.101C 101c of the Dharma subdivision regulations that every lot to be created has frontage of the

distance required by the zoning bylaw on a private street in existence prior to April 7th, 1953.

Um so all the lots are listed on the plan also in the in your packet um in the little table showing that all those frontages are met for each of the three lots. Um, so this plan would be eligible for endorsement and I would recommend that the vote the planning board vote to endorse that plan.

Does anyone have any questions?

I do. Uh, uh, Nick, um, go ahead Dan, was this wasn't a 61A at any time, was it?

They didn't note that on their plan, so I don't know off the top of my head that it was or wasn't. I believe Mr. Buché is here. I don't know if he has any input on that.

Good evening, Mr. Chairman and everyone.

It's Mark Bucher with CAB Engineering Solutions. Um Margaret, your question directly. I don't know if any of this was under 61A. I'm not aware that it was. I do know the overall parcel um as it exists prior to this division was about a 30 acre uh piece on the west side of Michon Point Road and 25 acres uh which is now shown as lot three was under a conservation restriction uh to

remain undeveloped in perpetuity. Uh, so I'm not aware that there was an additional 61A restriction on any of it.

I I just have a question. If it was under a 61A and they did want to do an ANR, um, would that this be something, Dan, that would have to, uh, uh, be approved by the selectman? That's the only reason I asked if it was a 61A.

um just for sale of the lots.

You can subdivide like that under a 61A without uh Well, I guess you can because it isn't for sale.

It should any It's my understanding that any obligation that's that's in a on a lot applies to the subdivided lots as well.

Is that I'm just wondering. Yeah, that's what I'm just wondering. I'm just curious. Um, and I I might say this now.

Um, at one time we used to uh when I was on zoning, I used to require that um when I got them that we got field cards because when you get a field card, everything's on the field card. Uh, so maybe Dan because we don't have that much in front, maybe we could get field cards along in our package for the properties that we're getting. Uh that might help because they have you you

could tell if it was a 61A.

Um Mr. Chairman, members of the board, it's Mark again.

I have divided properties that were subject to 61A and Dan's correct. I think it's I think it's the conveyance of any of the lots that actually triggers the right of first refusal that you're uh talking about. Um, at this point in time, the Parker family uh is trying to, I guess, set up estate planning for various family members. And as far as I know, there's not an imminent transfer

of title uh involved. But again, I I have I have been involved in projects where a farm that was subject to 61A was divided and um it did not prevent the endorsement of an ANR plan.

Well, I think it's probably you're probably correct, uh Mark, because it is not for sale. I was just a question when I looked at it and unfortunately I couldn't call I couldn't call the town hall today to find out. So that's why I bring it up tonight.

So Dan, just just to kind of get this in a a a level of understanding for me, let's say if we have a single lot and we want to subdivide that lot.

If there's any kind of an obligation on that lot, that obligation survives the subdivision to to both of the the uh the the subdivided properties right?

Yes. So, like like Mr. Bush said, that runs with with the land. Um Okay. A recent one I can think of is the land across from UMass Dartmouth. They did an ANR subdivision there and then they went in front of the selectment for right of first refusal. I know there was a question about maybe purchasing one of the lots. It didn't end up happening. Um but the restriction still runs and if

there is any kind of restriction, it'll have to be um offered up to the town for right of first refusal in any way, shape or form. The lots are subdivided.

Okay. I just want to clarify that.

Thanks, Kev. Anyone else?

Are we comfortable with what we now know about the ANR and what we've shared? And if so, if so, do we have a motion?

If not, do we have further questions?

No, I'm comfortable. I'll make the motion to approve.

I'll second.

Motion made by Margaret, seconded by Helio Rosa to approve. Approval not required. 100 Michon Point Assessor's map 11 lot 15 Margaret yes Rosa yes Lorie Miller yes Kevin Estes yes Nick Cyclopus yes thank you very much thank you Mark B have a good night brings us to administrative item number three chapter 9 to1 waterways water dependent license 19 Smith's way assessor's map 14 lot 10. It's also in

the packet. Dan, if you want to speak on behalf of it, please go ahead.

Sure. As uh mentioned, this is for 19 Smith's Way, assessor's map 14, lot 10.

Um, this is an application brought forward by Craig Marshall with plans by Haru Engineering to license and maintain an existing fixed pier and proposed fixed pier extension, gang way, and flow. Um, the plans were included in the packet for all the board members. Um, in accordance with the Massachusetts Department of Environmental Protection, the planning board has to be notified of

the license for comment. Um, standard procedure for these. If if there is no concerns, the planning board should acknowledge receipt of the notification.

Um, and consider sending the standard letter, which was also included in your packet. Um, so it would just be a vote to authorize me to send the standard letter back to the D.

Any questions from the board?

No, we do a lot of these. I have no questions.

In the absence of any questions, we need a motion to approve Dan to send the standard letter as he mentioned.

So moved.

Have a second.

Second.

Motion made by Helio Rosa, seconded by Kevin Estes to approve the chapter 91 waterways water dependent license for 19 Smith's Way. Helio Rosa, yes.

Kevin Estes, yes.

Margaret, yes.

Lorie Miller, abstain.

Nick Cyclopus. Yes.

That brings us to administrative item number four, discussion regarding the site plan review revisions, article 24 changes that we have discussed. Um, we've seen the red lines and discussed them. Uh, Dan, go ahead and share with the board if you don't mind the status of that with council and so on.

So, I have been in contact um with town council Brian Cruz. Um, we have given him the same information that was in the packet. This goes back a few weeks.

We've had some um outstanding issues, I would say, from uh from finalizing discussions on this for the past couple meetings we've had. Um but both documents were sent to to Mr. Cruz, Attorney Cruz, and he is reviewing them.

Um he's kind of hoping that by the next meeting if there's any questions, decisions, any um he can either attend a meeting hopefully either the 9th or the next meeting in February. Um so if it's the board's decision to move forward on this, we can um begin the public hearing process and move towards um a potential spring meeting, springtown meeting um warrant article.

Thank you.

Does anyone want to share anything at this point in time prior to we have council on with us? I I know there was some discussion. Um we did discuss the parking situation 18 versus 20 ft versus the feet, how many feet between two parking spaces, left to right, the aisle, etc. Um I I kind of felt that at this point in time perhaps we wait to see town council. Um but by all means, let's

discuss whatever we need to discuss.

Anyone?

Dan, I have a question.

Dan, are you gonna have you've already sent this to town council? Are you I'm in the process of sending it to him.

Yes, he's had it for a few weeks now.

Um Okay. He was hoping to have something back to us for the next meeting.

Okay. That's what I was asking. Before we meet with him in person, I would like to um get his response in writings like we did um for other special permit.

Yes, I did mention his his opinions before we have the meeting.

Correct.

Okay. Okay. Thank you.

Anyone else regarding article 24 and town council?

All right. If that's the case, we'll move on to item number five, ongoing discussion, Dartmouth future zoning.

I just want to share uh something before we move on with this subject. I did have the luxury of sitting with Mr. Patrick Carney. I did express to him in summary a lot of the conversation we're having be mostly with the commercial and the need for units above and converting to mixed and the story that we've all talked about and I shared the fact that we really need to hear from some

developers and I asked if he would consider speaking um to us at any point in time. He immediately responded yes at this time of year. He bounces back and forth north and south quite a bit and he quickly referenced the fact that he would have Patrick Carney Jr. jump on with us andor one of his other members whose name escapes me at the moment. So depending when we think is right, I'd be

happy to reach back out to him and ask for that commitment and get that on our agenda.

Anyone else with anything to share regarding future zoning and what we've discussed so far?

Mr. Chairman, if I could just add something.

I I have spoken to um a few other potential stakeholders for this um kind of zoning changes and they kind of were in the same thing looking towards spring. So that might be an ideal time um to maybe take that next step. At that point, um hopefully the housing production plan will be um in effect and a few other items that will hopefully get us a a complete picture of what we'll be looking at for zoning

potential changes.

I I appreciate that. I I want to share the fact that um I I know we keep on talking about the housing production plan and I know we've referenced spring a few times.

either by virtue of a meeting and having somebody before us or independently asking some questions. I mean, I I feel like between now and then, if we gather any information, it's better than no information. Perhaps how they feel about present zoning, what their obstacles are, big or small, what they foresee for the town. Anything that we can bring to these meetings from their perspective, I

think would be constructive by all means. it wouldn't be destructive in any way, but um I I'll use everyone's judgment, including yours, in terms of when we start inviting people to come before us, but along the way, I don't think there's any harm in asking some questions and trying to share it amongst us.

U Mr. Chairman, I sent Dan today, he he couldn't get it, but I sent Dan today something uh that was in the Wall Street Journal this weekend about uh housing and from uh California and they were talking exactly what we spoke about with these big boxes and all the parking that was required for the big boxes and all that expensive land that is not being used. And these people were converting a market. uh they were

putting housing above a a market 100,000 square feet and I forget how many houses but Dan uh has the article and he'll send it to all of you to read because it's exactly what we've been talking about doing you know and as far as when you know as far as parking um I know we have the zoning board has approved uh a new car dealership which I had talked to the

gentleman as a pl as a planning board member And um it's going to be interesting when they come before us to see how much parking that they're required for their cars on the law because if you go if you go if you travel and you go to the Midwest and to California and down south, you'll see that a lot of these car dealerships now are going up. Have you ever seen any of those?

Have of course.

Yes. So they all go up. They have elevators and they don't require the kind of parking that we do because it's absolutely true as I mentioned you go to uh you go to these big box on Fconor Road and you got all this extra land you know we shouldn't make them do that anymore really I I think that I think that you're spot on and I agree with you there's going to be contest over what

you and I just agreed upon and going up and that look of that form of retail and how it conforms or not when we ask a nationwide dealership to change its peak or use a different siding and so on.

hard to do that when they're going up three stories with glass, 3,000 square feet per footprint, and they're putting cars up and down on an elevator.

Well, I ju I I just use that as an example. I don't expect any car dealerships to do that here yet. But what I'm trying to say to you is the amount of land that is required Yeah.

needs to be changed because, you know, Yeah, Nick. You go to home.

I'm agreeing with you.

Yes, I'm agreeing with you. Look all the land that Walmart has and they don't use all that land.

Sure.

All that parking, I should say. Not land parking.

Yeah. The one the one that upsets me a lot is over by Kohl's and the old Christmas tree shop and so on. I know I know we have a market going there, but I think anything shy of Disney World going there, there will still be parking available, right?

It's a profound amount of asphalt, right? So, we need to look at that when we're doing our planning because it's not fair.

I was trying to say something. Go ahead.

Yeah. I was just going to say to to to for the group's benefit, to Dan's credit, you know, some of these proposed changes on the article 24 do begin to address that. So, I I applaud that.

Thank you, Helio.

Anyone else want to contribute at this moment?

Dan, anything else from your perspective regarding article 24 perhaps uh that that we should be discussing at the moment?

Uh I'm not at the moment.

Was a good job. I read all good job Dan and the people and whoever. I I I didn't uh add too much to that, but it it looks good.

Yes. And we'll have time we'll have time as we're going through the process to um to be able to tweak things as we're going to. So, okay.

We got some we still got a little bit of work to do.

Yeah. There were a couple of things that I have questions on, but we can wait till what the town council says.

Yep.

Dan, did you say it a little bit ago regarding when you expect town council to be with us about this or or do you have an idea?

He um as when I spoke to him, he was spo he was hoping to have the his markup comments prior to the next meeting. Um I was planning on reaching out to him after our discussion today and then making make a determination as to when he'd be before us, whether it be the 9th or that second meeting in February. Um so I will have a better understanding and um more to add for the next hearing

on on February 9th.

Great. Dan, is it possible for you to um as soon as he sends them to you, send them to us so that we don't get them on the Thursday or Friday before the meeting if it's possible so we'll have more time to read them?

Absolutely.

Thank you.

If nothing else regarding article 24 changes, it brings us to number five.

I'm sorry, it brings us to um number six, Dart Future Zoning. And then number six minutes.

Yes. So, we have three sets of minutes to um approve if the board is okay with them. We we do, as you can tell, have we have a uh new person to transcribe our minutes. Um her name is Caroline. So, we have the three that were ready prior to um sending out the packet. She has since um I believe it was today I received the last couple minutes. So, those that were

outstanding. So those will be ready for the next meeting. So after that, we should be fully caught up on our on our minutes. So if the board has any comments on these three sets, November 17, 2025, December 8, 2025, and December 15, 2025, um if not, I would recommend um a motion to approve the minutes individually or as a group.

I would I would do each one individually.

Okay. So, so let's address the minutes of November 17th, 2025. Do I have a motion to approve?

So, moved.

Second.

Motion made by Margaret, seconded by Kevin Estes to approve the minutes of November 17th, 2025. Margaret, yes.

Kevin Estes, yes.

Lori Miller, yes.

Rosa, I'll abstain from this one.

Nick Psychopatis, yes. Next we have the minutes of December 8th, 2025. Do I have a motion to approve?

Motion.

So moved.

Motion made by Kevin Estes, seconded by Lorie Miller to approve the minutes of December 8th, 2025. Kevin Estes, yes.

Lori Miller, yes.

Margaret, uh, I'm going to abstain.

Rosa, yes.

And Nick Cyclopus, yes. And then we have the minutes of December 15, 2025. Do I have a motion to approve them, please?

Do I have a motion to approve the minute? I'm sorry, who was that?

So moved.

Lori, have a second.

Second.

Motion made by Lori Miller, seconded by Kevin Estes to approve the minutes of December 15, 2025. Lori Miller.

Yes. Kevin Estes, yes.

Margaret Sweet, I'm going to abstain for that, too.

Rosa, I have to abstain.

And Nick Psychopatis, yes.

Dan, I'm dragging my tongue. I'm not sure if that's the meeting I was absent.

Um, I don't believe so.

You were there for that one, Nick.

Okay. Nick Cyclopus. Yes. That brings us to item number seven, correspondence.

Dan.

Yes. See, um these are the typical um notifications from planning boards and zoning boards um of Fall River, Freetown, Town of Westport. Um we also have a letter from local residents Fred and Kate Dabney in regards to a 40B project um sent to a few different boards. Obviously, this isn't something that the board would be voting on um for 40B approval, but it's in the packet. It was sent to us. So, if everybody's all

set with or doesn't have any comments with that, um, it would just be a motion to acknowledge and file.

So, moved.

I have a second.

Second. Can I make a comment, please?

Please.

Um, I want to thank Fred and Kate Dabney for sending the the letter, a copy to Wise as well to the Zingling Board of Appeals because we don't always get letters that are sent out. But I'd like to make a comment on his number one letter, one number one issue, the water rate. He's absolutely right. Our water rates are going up, but I wish the board of the DPW would enforce their fines on

when we have a water ban. I'm driving around town and it is raining and they're using their sprinkler systems.

Therefore, we have to buy more water when they're when they're using their sprinkler systems in the summer when there's a water ban. I wish there was something we could do about that because that's a substantial amount of money um that we're paying for water in the summer when we don't really need to. And that's my nasty comment for the night.

Well, well, that's very true, Lori. I see it too. So, I agree. Uh, I will also second that uh opinion.

I won't disagree with it.

Thank you.

I just had to say it. I mean, but you're right, Lori, because when there's a ban, some people don't care and they do it anyway.

So, there's nobody to go around checking.

Well, even when there's not a ban, it's it's common sense. I mean, if it's raining, don't water your lawn. No, but I'm talking about when there's a ban and it's a sunny day and you're not supposed to be watering. There's I go by all the time and see people still watering.

Okay. And I know because I started a new lawn, but if there was a ban, I wouldn't water.

Well, no, you can do a new lawn, but that you know, someone who's had a lawn for 30 years.

Well, that's what I mean. I mean, I had I had spots in my lawn.

Okay.

Spots. Not a whole new lawn.

I pulled mine up. Did you?

Yeah. 106 William, come take a look.

Well, don't look now.

Wait for the snow to melt.

I'll wait for the snow to melt.

We pulled it up. We put a stone walkway and we put uh uh local uh local plants that are drought resistant. And uh I I I would love to take a lot of credit for this, but my wife is uh really good with plants and uh this was all her design and uh it is very sustainable and I can tell you that uh we we certainly don't water anything anymore other than when it's first planted.

Oh, I I'm going to go by and see it.

Kevin want to see it as well.

Fantastic.

And Kevin, you got more credit than you thought for referencing your wife's idea.

There you go.

All right. So, this brings us back to correspondence.

Do we have a motion to acknowledge and file?

Motion.

We had we had a motion from Helio already. Second by Lori.

Oh, sorry about that. Okay. Motion made by Helio Rosa, seconded by Kevin Estes to acknowledge.

Nope. Second by Lori.

Lori.

Now, now I got to get my stuff in order here. All right. Here we go. Motion made by Helio Rosa, seconded by Lorie Miller to acknowledge and file item number seven, correspondence. Helio Rosa, yes.

Lori Miller, yes.

Margaret Sweet, yes.

Kevin Estes, yes.

Next, Psycho Pavis.

Yes.

I used to put your initials. I used to take notes as I was doing this, but I'm getting very comfortable. I didn't do that tonight. So, sorry.

Item number eight, uh, our information, old business, new business. Dan, um, nothing new for incoming zoning board applications. We do have one decision that was in the packet. That was ZAV211.

That was 411 FS Corner Road. Um, board members might remember that was originally something that came before the planning board for a potential Audi dealership. Um, this proposal is for a convenience store, gas station drive-thru that was approved by the board of appeals. So hopefully that is something um we will um see coming before the board in the near future.

Excellent. Thank you so much.

Any subcommittee reports?

We had a CPC meeting and the agricultural uh commission was before us uh regarding uh financing uh and getting some funding from from the CPC and we had um uh Christine talked about um we now have I think 23 new properties that have been added to the historic uh uh oh I'm going to forget the name of it. uh where you can look it up and and get the history from the state of Massachusetts.

What's that name? Majis Ma I can't remember the name, Dan.

Oh yeah, the state of Massachusetts has the whole history of these 23 houses now.

And one of them actually was a commercial property which I was surprised. So that's really nice. And they do it and the person that did it, she did a wonderful job. So you know, I'll just have to remember the name and give it to you. But they did a very good job.

Thank you, Margaret. Anyone else?

If not, um, we'll jump down regarding the planners report and the housing production plan update. Dan, you mentioned it earlier on in the meeting, but can you just state it one more time like where that is in process?

the representative from Sered, I have them um to come before the board on the next meeting, February 9th, um to discuss the draft housing production plan. Um I've already given her um a few notes of things that I saw that I would like to see added. Um if any board members have anything that they see as they're reading through it, I would ask that you please forward those requests

to me so I can get them to her. Um, so hopefully um she can address those before the meeting and we can have a productive discussion on the 9th.

Um, Dan, I haven't read whole the whole report yet, but I certainly will get that to you soon as I'm done.

Perfect.

Um, I also have one um well letting, but if anybody else has anything to add to that item, go ahead. Um, one other um, item of note um, for those I'm not sure if everybody's on the on the board is aware, Chris Vitali, the assistant town administrator, um, has moved on to another town from his position. Um, one of the things that he was working on was a um, facilitating some of the 40B

projects um, helping out the zoning board of appeals. Um, so I have kind of taken on a little bit bigger role on that to help the the zoning board. Um, one thing which I believe I mentioned to the board at the time when the Hathaway, that's why it's called the Hathaway off Haway Road, the new 40B came in um that my brother wasn't a butter. So I kind of stayed out of the discussion. Um but now

um facilitating some of these things I am now I have filed an appearance of conflict of interest for that with the select board and it's also in the office of the planning board. So if anybody wants to take a look at that or would like a copy of it I can I can forward that to you.

Thank you Dan.

Brings us to the chairperson's report. I hope that you and your families are safe and warm and that everybody fared well the past couple of days. I don't have anything of substance to add at this point in time, but the floor is open if anybody wants to add anything prior to the next item.

Otherwise, the next scheduled planning board meeting will be February 9th at 7 PM.

And Dan, is that the meeting that the SERD member will be attending or we hope to?

That's what I I I have it um pencled in.

I I sent it to the representative and they confirmed. So, barring any any issues, I I would expect to have them here at the 9th.

Okay, great. So, in in the uh if there's any potential for any of us to be absent, I would strongly support the idea of getting a couple of questions to Dan or any of us to include in that meeting if that member's here. So, again, this is referring to the the annual report that uh you emailed out today.

The housing production plan.

The housing production plan, right?

Yes. Yes. So, we we as a planning board will vote to accept it. Then it'll go to the selectman. they'll accept it. And then there's one final step. I'm not I don't have it right in front of me now what the department is, but the SERD sends it to them for the final approval.

So, I will have that information or they'll have that information at the next meeting.

It is a interesting read.

What did I hear?

It's a very interesting read. Um, and there's a lot to go through and I'm not saying I've gone through it in its entirety, but it's a very interesting read. Anyone else?

It's actually a lot longer than the one they did uh several years ago. I'll tell you that.

I was on that committee with Dan.

A lot of a lot of pages of the survey results, which I don't remember those being in the last one. So, that definitely adds some uh yeah, some weight to it.

The survey results are fascinating. Yes, there's um a lot of conflicting information.

They contradict contradict themselves too.

Absolutely. So many people often wonder about surveys. Don't the rest of you often wonder about surveys.

Someday I'm going to ask for a complete list of the people they surveyed.

Well, if you remember, Margaret, there was very few results. Um and we made a push to get um a larger amount and the representative from Serpent said we actually uh far exceeded most towns. So we did a good job of uh getting more responses.

When we were done we had over 400 and that's a big increase.

Well, any questions or concerns, by all means, we we should get them in writing, either ready to ask them or share them with Dan. Um, and dissect it as much as possible, as polite as possible with that member before us. That's all.

Okay.

What's that?

I said, "Okay, boss."

Oh, no wonder I didn't hear you. You said boss.

Well, if that's it, we can go on to number nine. Um, been good seeing everybody. I'm glad everyone's well. I understand most people have not lost power, which is nice. Which means most people have heat. Correct.

Right.

Yeah.

Yes. Thank God.

Very nice.

Agenda item number nine. Anybody want to um proudly support?

Second. Motion made by Helio Rosa and seconded by Kevin Estes to adjourn tonight's meeting January 26, 2026.

Helio Rosa, yes.

Kevin Estes, yes.

Margaret Sweet, yes.

Lorie Miller, yes.

Nick Psychopis, yes.

Good seeing everybody.

Stay safe everyone.

Yeah.

As well. Have a great evening. Stay well.

Good night everybody.

Good night. Good night.